Re: Unicode quotes in C

[Glenn Maynard <g_lutf8@xxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, Nov 09, 2001 at 06:59:36AM +0100, Karl Eichwalder wrote:
> I have dealt with international quotes for quite some time.  More
> important than doing cosmetics now is it to unify strings with in
> program message.  We need rules when to quote file names, option
> switches, program names and how to do it.  At the moment these occur
> (from memory):
> 
>     Please, check %s
>     Please, check file %s
>     Please, check file '%s'
>     Please, check file `%s'
>     Please, check file "%s"
>     Please, check file "%s".
> 
>     Use --foo-switch and pipe through sed
>     Use --foo-switch and pipe through "sed"
>     Use `--foo-switch' and pipe through "sed"
>     etc.
> 
> Consider to join the en@xxxxxx mailinglist and take actions to discuss
> these topics.

I'm not currently interested in those topics.  What does any of this have
to do with this thread?

> > I tend to prefer having features default to enabled if they're usable
> > by fully compliant clients--those with broken clients (even if they're
> > currently the majority) can disable it.
> 
> It isn't nice to bug users with features; write good documentation,
> don't force the user to do it your way.  You may change the defaults for
> the next _major_ release and announce the change properly (e.g., via the
> NEWS file).

Hence giving a method to disable features users might not want; a method
to do this has already been shown.  When such changes can be made is up to
the individual developer; I don't consider this to be a major change, so I
would probably put it in a minor release.  If you disagree, feel free to use
your own judgment, in your own projects.

> How will come “ and ” out if the user's terminal doesn't support UTF-8?
> Transliterated as `` ... ''?  That's worse than just "..."!  BTW, it's
> arguable whether one really want to have open and close quotes for
> computer related strings like file names or option.  IMO, those advanced
> quotes should be reserved for citations (G. Nannini says: “È già
> domani.”).

Gettext translates them to ".  Why should they be reserved for citations?
I like them in "computer related strings", and I'm not alone here.  If you
don't like them ... turn them off.

> > It means people know about the feature; lots of useful stuff goes
> > unused because it's not known.  (How many people would add -F to their
> > "ls" alias if their distribution didn't do it for them?)
> 
> That one of the "features" that confuses users in the beginning :)

Er, I've never seen anyone confused by it, especially when combined with
color-ls.  (Of course, I've heard of people being confused by having to
click "start" in Windows in order to shut down; some people are confused
by anything. :)

> > This helps get stuff implemented, too: people see it, decide they like
> > it, and push to get it implemented in their software.  (This is
> > particularly true for things like this, where it's trivial to fall
> > back on, in this case, regular ASCII quotes if real quotes aren't
> > available.)
> 
> As explained above, it will do more harm than good (-> ``...'').  And

As explained above, as implemented here, it will do no harm whatsoever
(-> "...", at least when LANG=C.)  (Yes, I tested this before even
posting it here, as it was a fundamental prerequisite that this not make
non-UTF-8 use ugly.)

> even if it were displayed correctly, chances are big that the font
> doesn't look nice.  My default font displays " much better than ” -- the
> latter is to small, too dense, too slanted, and someho boldish.

This is a client problem.  If you refuse to fix your font, disable the
characters.

> Please, don't push nobody.

I'm not.  (I certainly feel pushed, however.)

-- 
Glenn Maynard
--
Linux-UTF8:   i18n of Linux on all levels
Archive:      http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-utf8/