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From:	Ramachandra Pai <linuxram@yahoo.com>
Subject: Hi-AV cluster disk ownership?
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Looks like, there is no much activity on this list. 
So making a bold attempt to raise a issue. :-)

In a cluster with storage disks on SAN, what is the
mechanism to identify which disks belong to which
cluster?  NOTE: there can be many many nodes on the
SAN, all of which may not be clustered with each
other.

In other words, when a node belonging to a cluster
boots up, and scans and sees thousands of disks on the
SAN, how will the kernel decide; which disks to
import?  

I know this project is in its infancy, but thought I
will get some ideas.

Thanks,



=====
Ram Pai  
IBM Corporation,  
Linux Technology Center,
linuxram@yahoo.com or pair@us.ibm.com

EVMS Development - http://www.sf.net/projects/evms

__________________________________________________
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Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for Linux
Archive:       http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/

From owner-linux-cluster@nl.linux.org Fri Oct  5 19:47:00 2001
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From:	Rob Latham <rlatham@plogic.com>
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Subject: Re: Hi-AV cluster disk ownership?
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On Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:34:49AM -0700, Ramachandra Pai wrote:
 
> In a cluster with storage disks on SAN, what is the
> mechanism to identify which disks belong to which
> cluster?  NOTE: there can be many many nodes on the
> SAN, all of which may not be clustered with each
> other.

i may be missing something, but isn't that called an "fstab" ?

==rob

-- 
[ Rob Latham <rlatham@plogic.com>         Developer, Admin, Alchemist ]
[ Paralogic Inc. - www.plogic.com                                     ]
[                                                                     ]
[ EAE8 DE90 85BB 526F 3181                   1FCF 51C4 B6CB 08CC 0897 ]

Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for Linux
Archive:       http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/

From owner-linux-cluster@nl.linux.org Fri Oct  5 20:23:29 2001
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Subject: Re: Hi-AV cluster disk ownership?
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> In a cluster with storage disks on SAN, what is the
> mechanism to identify which disks belong to which
> cluster?  NOTE: there can be many many nodes on the
> SAN, all of which may not be clustered with each
> other.
>
> In other words, when a node belonging to a cluster
> boots up, and scans and sees thousands of disks on the
> SAN, how will the kernel decide; which disks to
> import?

There are basically three methods in common use.  High-end disk arrays often
address the problem at the target end, by only making devices visible to
configured ports or FC WWNs.  FC-fabric gear addresses the problem in the
middle with features such as zoning, which in effect limits the portion of
the SAN that's actually "visible" from any host.  Lastly, there are all
sorts of host-based approaches.  While these operate at different levels
within the OS/BIOS/whatever, they mostly work by reading configuration
information at some "well known" location that tells the system which
devices it can access.

There are, obviously, all sorts of tradeoffs and many opinions about which
method is "best", but I won't get into that.



Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for Linux
Archive:       http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/

From owner-linux-cluster@nl.linux.org Fri Oct  5 21:41:05 2001
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Subject: Re: Hi-AV cluster disk ownership?
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Many systems will discover all visible LUNs on the
SAN and make them visible as raw devices.  If it's Windows,
it'll try to mount all the ones that look like file systems;
on UNIX, mounting is limited by fstab, but not creation of
/dev disk partitions.

To keep nodes from picking up disks they aren't supposed
to see (or mount), you can do things like program the domains
of the SAN or the disks (eg: brocade switch), or rely on
higher level software to negotiate between nodes (eg: MSCS).

Discovery often involves probe operations, which can be very
time consuming on a SAN; some systems cache things they saw
last time in an attempt to reduce boot time, but this gets
complicated when storage is altered in their SAN visibility.

-dB

Rob Latham wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:34:49AM -0700, Ramachandra Pai wrote:
> 
> > In a cluster with storage disks on SAN, what is the
> > mechanism to identify which disks belong to which
> > cluster?  NOTE: there can be many many nodes on the
> > SAN, all of which may not be clustered with each
> > other.
> 
> i may be missing something, but isn't that called an "fstab" ?
> 
> ==rob
> 
> --
> [ Rob Latham <rlatham@plogic.com>         Developer, Admin, Alchemist ]
> [ Paralogic Inc. - www.plogic.com                                     ]
> [                                                                     ]
> [ EAE8 DE90 85BB 526F 3181                   1FCF 51C4 B6CB 08CC 0897 ]
> 
> Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for Linux
> Archive:       http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/

Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for Linux
Archive:       http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/

From owner-linux-cluster@nl.linux.org Fri Oct  5 22:55:10 2001
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Date:	Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:54:30 -0700 (PDT)
From:	Ramachandra Pai <linuxram@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hi-AV cluster disk ownership?
To:	David Brower <david.brower@oracle.com>, linux-cluster@nl.linux.org
Cc:	pair@us.ibm.com
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Well I understand that you can use hardware features
like zoning, or lun masking etc.  This will ensure
that a node sees only the disk it is supposed to see.

But in an all encompassing paradigm like that of
linux, where disks of all kinds reside; some
supporting hardware features, some too naive; is there
any solution that can meet these requirement?

If we assume no hardware support, disk labeling could
be a solution.  But if you do that; so many issues 
pop up like:

1. Is there any location on the disk where that
information can be kept satisfying the metadata
placement rules of the various partitioning schemes?
2. If such a scheme does exist, what ownership
information to keep. Like which cluster the disk
belongs to. If it belongs to a particular cluster, is
it owned explicitly by a single node of the cluster,
or by all the nodes of the cluster.... etc, etc.
3. If such a scheme exists, will all the other
operating systems that have access to the disk will be
able to interpret and handle that properly.


Just dumping my brain. Probably this may be a no-issue
at all. Hope so.

Thanks,


--- David Brower <david.brower@oracle.com> wrote:
> Many systems will discover all visible LUNs on the
> SAN and make them visible as raw devices.  If it's
> Windows,
> it'll try to mount all the ones that look like file
> systems;
> on UNIX, mounting is limited by fstab, but not
> creation of
> /dev disk partitions.
> 
> To keep nodes from picking up disks they aren't
> supposed
> to see (or mount), you can do things like program
> the domains
> of the SAN or the disks (eg: brocade switch), or
> rely on
> higher level software to negotiate between nodes
> (eg: MSCS).
> 
> Discovery often involves probe operations, which can
> be very
> time consuming on a SAN; some systems cache things
> they saw
> last time in an attempt to reduce boot time, but
> this gets
> complicated when storage is altered in their SAN
> visibility.
> 
> -dB
> 
> Rob Latham wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, Oct 05, 2001 at 10:34:49AM -0700,
> Ramachandra Pai wrote:
> > 
> > > In a cluster with storage disks on SAN, what is
> the
> > > mechanism to identify which disks belong to
> which
> > > cluster?  NOTE: there can be many many nodes on
> the
> > > SAN, all of which may not be clustered with each
> > > other.
> > 
> > i may be missing something, but isn't that called
> an "fstab" ?
> > 
> > ==rob
> > 
> > --
> > [ Rob Latham <rlatham@plogic.com>        
> Developer, Admin, Alchemist ]
> > [ Paralogic Inc. - www.plogic.com                 
>                    ]
> > [                                                 
>                    ]
> > [ EAE8 DE90 85BB 526F 3181                   1FCF
> 51C4 B6CB 08CC 0897 ]
> > 
> > Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for
> Linux
> > Archive:      
> http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/
> 
> Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for
> Linux
> Archive:      
http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/


=====
Ram Pai  
IBM Corporation,  
Linux Technology Center,
linuxram@yahoo.com or pair@us.ibm.com

EVMS Development - http://www.sf.net/projects/evms

__________________________________________________
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Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for Linux
Archive:       http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/

From owner-linux-cluster@nl.linux.org Sat Oct  6 10:25:48 2001
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From:	Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb@suse.de>
To:	Ramachandra Pai <linuxram@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Hi-AV cluster disk ownership?
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On 2001-10-05T13:54:30,
   Ramachandra Pai <linuxram@yahoo.com> said:

> If we assume no hardware support, disk labeling could
> be a solution.

The solution is to only import/mount shared disks via the cluster manager
software, and assume that root doesn't mess with the system.

Anything else does require hardware support, which we don't have on a larger
scale.

And please, do trim your quotes; no need to include the full mail you are
replying to at the bottom of the mail. (Google will offer several FAQs on
proper quoting I am sure ;)

Sincerely,
    Lars Marowsky-Brée <lmb@suse.de>

-- 
Perfection is our goal, excellence will be tolerated. -- J. Yahl


Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for Linux
Archive:       http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/

From owner-linux-cluster@nl.linux.org Tue Oct 16 17:51:32 2001
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I would like to briefly announce the availability of a new release
(1.00beta7) of the North Fork Networks SANi.q. storage management
product for Linux.  We are currently looking for additional users to
test our software.  Additional information, including a user manual
and freely downloadable binary distribution, can be found on our web
site (www.northforknet.com).

Regards, Mark Hayden


SANi.q. is the first fully distributed volume management software.
It allows the construction of high-performance, highly available
storage area networks with commodity hardware.  Features include:

* Storage pooling across any number of storage servers.

* Configurable cross-box volume striping and replication.

* Copy-on-write volume snapshots.

* On-the-fly data migration and hot-swapping of servers.

* Incremental volume resynchronization (only changes are
  resynchronized after a server restart)

* Support for shared volume access (eg., Sistina's GFS).

* Fully replicated management configuration.

* A java-based GUI.

Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for Linux
Archive:       http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/

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Linux-cluster: generic cluster infrastructure for Linux
Archive:       http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/