From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Nov 11 15:16:49 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:16:07 +0100 Received: from globalhq.submarinesystems.com ([208.219.14.66]:263 "HELO globalhq.submarinesystems.com" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with SMTP id ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:15:25 +0100 Received: by GLOBALHQ01NEW with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:15:22 -0500 Received: from globalhq02.submarinesystems.com (GLOBALHQ02 [10.6.0.52]) by globalhq01.submarinesystems.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id WKJFD28Y; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:15:17 -0500 Received: by GLOBALHQ02 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:16:47 -0500 From: Ikonomopoulos Anna To: "'linux-aviation@nl.linux.org'" Message-ID: Subject: NEW IDEA Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:15:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Coordinator of New Products of Design or President/CEO of company. HOME GYM DESIGN ADVANTAGES: * Enables the user to perform a complete, thorough workout in the privacy of their home. * Eliminates the hassle and expense of joining a gym, spa or health club. * Burns fat and builds muscle * Offers a wider variety of exercises than many conventional home gyms and exercise accessories. * Enables exercise enthusiasts to target "problem areas" or get a complete workout without switching machines. * Highly adjustable for ease of use by individuals of all fitness levels. * Safety features allow use without assistance/need for spotter. * Designed to feature a target weight capacity of 400-500 lbs. DESIGN FEATURES: * Contact Intromark at 1-800-851-6030 for feather Detailed information. TARGET MARKETS: * Exercise enthusiasts. MARKETING OUTLETS: * Sporting good stores. * Department, discount department and variety stores. * Wholesaler, distributors and retailers of home fitness equipment, supplies and accessories. * Televised home shopping programs. * World Wide Web. * Mail-order catalogs 98-NWK-843 SIC CODES: * 3949 FOR IMMEDIATE INFORMATION PLEASE CALL INTROMARK AT 1-800-851-6030. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Nov 11 15:17:42 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:17:10 +0100 Received: from globalhq.submarinesystems.com ([208.219.14.66]:50951 "HELO globalhq.submarinesystems.com" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with SMTP id ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:16:12 +0100 Received: by GLOBALHQ01NEW with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:16:07 -0500 Received: from globalhq02.submarinesystems.com (GLOBALHQ02 [10.6.0.52]) by globalhq01.submarinesystems.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id WKJFD29S; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:16:03 -0500 Received: by GLOBALHQ02 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:17:33 -0500 From: Ikonomopoulos Anna To: "'linux-aviation@nl.linux.org'" Message-ID: Subject: NEW IDEA Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:16:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Coordinator of New Products of Design or President/CEO of company. HOME GYM DESIGN ADVANTAGES: * Enables the user to perform a complete, thorough workout in the privacy of their home. * Eliminates the hassle and expense of joining a gym, spa or health club. * Burns fat and builds muscle * Offers a wider variety of exercises than many conventional home gyms and exercise accessories. * Enables exercise enthusiasts to target "problem areas" or get a complete workout without switching machines. * Highly adjustable for ease of use by individuals of all fitness levels. * Safety features allow use without assistance/need for spotter. * Designed to feature a target weight capacity of 400-500 lbs. DESIGN FEATURES: * Contact Intromark at 1-800-851-6030 for feather Detailed information. TARGET MARKETS: * Exercise enthusiasts. MARKETING OUTLETS: * Sporting good stores. * Department, discount department and variety stores. * Wholesaler, distributors and retailers of home fitness equipment, supplies and accessories. * Televised home shopping programs. * World Wide Web. * Mail-order catalogs 98-NWK-843 SIC CODES: * 3949 FOR IMMEDIATE INFORMATION PLEASE CALL INTROMARK AT 1-800-851-6030. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Tue Nov 23 09:56:59 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:56:23 +0100 Received: from netcom3.netcom.com ([199.183.9.103]:41227 "EHLO netcom.com" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:55:51 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA19632 for linux-aviation@mail.nl.linux.org; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 00:55:38 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 00:55:38 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Status of fplan airport, nav database files (long) Message-ID: <19991123005538.A19525@netcom3.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Tue Nov 23 00:54:20 PST 1999 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Greetings Everyone... Now that the long summer days are a thing of the past, I've finally found some time to get back to work on fplan. Things may be a little slow with all the holiday stuff coming up, but I should have more time on my hands. On that note, I wanted to post an update on the status of the fplan airport, nav database files. First off, I know that you pilots outside of the US may be feeling a little left out with regard to the database files, so let me address that situation first. I can appreciate your frustrations as I had the opportunity to experienced it myself with my vacation to Sweden and Germany this summer. The one little bit of good news I have to offer, is that I have discovered a web site that has lots of free data (for most of the world). It's called the "Worldwide Airport Path Finder" and is hosted by Falling Rain Genomics. Inc. They clearly state that the data may be inaccurate or obsolete. However, this might serve as a good starting point for those willing to do a little of their own data validation. The site is at; http://www.fallingrain.com/air/airports.cgi http://www.fallingrain.com/air/cache/geo/stats.html A short term solution that uses this data might not be that difficult. It should be possible to cobble together a script to automate the construction of a database from this data. A URL grabber like wget or curl could be used to fetch the desired pages, and then some simple awk, sed programs to strip out and reformat the data. It appears that much of the data at the WAPF site comes from a NOAA product called "Digital Aeronautical Flight Information File". I did a little surfing around, and found some information on NOAA's web site. Unfortunately, the data is a little on the expensive side. A one time purchase is 108.75 US$, and 1413.75 US$ for a year subscription with updates every 28 days. I dont know if the data can be freely distributed? See these pages for more info; http://acc.nos.noaa.gov/PriceLists/PricesNOSAero.html http://acc.nos.noaa.gov/Catalog/DAFIF.html For the long term, I suspect the best option for non-US pilots is purchasing data in ARINC 424-13 format. I haven't had a chance to research the specifics of this format, the documentation can be ordered :( for $100) from ARINC; http://www.arinc.com/Ind_Govt_Srv/Characteristics/arinc400.html http://www.arinc.com/Ind_Govt_Srv/Characteristics/424.html The main advantage of this approach is that current and accurate data in ARINC 424-13 format can be purchased from a variety of commercial sources for just about any country. The NavData CD-ROM product from Jeppesen is one familiar example. (By the way, I'd be interested in expired Jepp NavData CD-ROMs if anyone has one they would be willing to part with). The disadvantage of this approach is that it wouldn't be free. Each pilot would likely have to purchase the data due to the license restrictions. (Not sure of this, just a good guess?) For US airports, there have been some changes, some good and bad news. Two pieces of bad news; 1) the format of the comma delimited NFDC files has changed and that broke avdbtools, 2) as some of you may have discovered, these files are no longer available for free download over the Internet. Now for the good news... The "official" (meaning current and up to date) US National Airspace Data can now be purchased on CD-ROM for 36 US$. They have new releases every 56 days, and also offer a subscription service (details below). I've never worked with the old tapes they used to distribute, but I've heard they were a real nightmare. They advertise the new CD-ROMs as being much easier to work with. I'll find out shortly, as I just mailed off a check for the next release due out in early December. Anyhow, there is some work to be done on avdbtools to get it to work with the new format they are using. So unless you are planning to help with that effort, don't rush out and order this stuff just yet. Actually, it shouldn't be much work if they distribute the "original" fixed format data files that the comma delimited files are derived from. The older releases included the awk scripts that are / were used to generate the comma delimited files, and they could be tweaked to meet our needs without too much sweat. Anyhow, here are the new web pages describing everything; FAA - Aeronautical Information Services http://www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/100miss.html FAA - National Airspace Data Distribution http://www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/120/120nadd.html FAA - National Flight Data Center http://www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/110/110splsh.html This brings up another issue. I don't think there is a problem with redistributing this data for free. So perhaps we can find a corporate sponsor, or pool our money to enroll in the subscription program. Add a few volunteers to help reformat the data when it comes in, and we would once again have current US databases available for everyone to download! Best Regards, John -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, | "Once you have flown, -(*)- | you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there o/ \o | you have been, there you long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Tue Nov 23 16:20:02 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:19:27 +0100 Received: from mail.me.umn.edu ([134.84.18.15]:54796 "EHLO mail.me.umn.edu" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:18:56 +0100 Received: from kenai.me.umn.edu (root@kenai.me.umn.edu [134.84.18.22]) by mail.me.umn.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA46708 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:18:54 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from curt@me.umn.edu) Received: (from curt@localhost) by kenai.me.umn.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id JAA09266; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:18:54 -0600 From: "Curtis L. Olson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14394.45150.370924.597242@kenai.me.umn.edu> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:18:54 -0600 (CST) To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: Status of fplan airport, nav database files (long) In-Reply-To: <19991123005538.A19525@netcom3.netcom.com> References: <19991123005538.A19525@netcom3.netcom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list John, If you are ever interested in adding live, moving map functionality to fplan, I have code that can parse (and generate) the garmin serial format (and the more generic nmea format.) This is open source code developed as part of the flight gear project which we'd be happy to share. Also, the flight gear project is using an airport/navaid database that originated with the X-Plane simulator, but in the past year or two has jumped to the free side of the world and is volunteer maintained. It may or may not be able to fill in some of the gaps in your data. Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson University of MN, ME Dept. Flight Gear Project Twin Cities curt@me.umn.edu curt@flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org John C. Peterson writes: > Greetings Everyone... > > Now that the long summer days are a thing of the past, I've finally > found some time to get back to work on fplan. Things may be a little > slow with all the holiday stuff coming up, but I should have more > time on my hands. On that note, I wanted to post an update on the > status of the fplan airport, nav database files. > > First off, I know that you pilots outside of the US may be feeling a > little left out with regard to the database files, so let me address > that situation first. I can appreciate your frustrations as I had the > opportunity to experienced it myself with my vacation to Sweden and > Germany this summer. The one little bit of good news I have to > offer, is that I have discovered a web site that has lots of free > data (for most of the world). It's called the "Worldwide Airport Path > Finder" and is hosted by Falling Rain Genomics. Inc. They clearly > state that the data may be inaccurate or obsolete. However, this > might serve as a good starting point for those willing to do a little > of their own data validation. The site is at; > > http://www.fallingrain.com/air/airports.cgi > http://www.fallingrain.com/air/cache/geo/stats.html > > A short term solution that uses this data might not be that > difficult. It should be possible to cobble together a script to > automate the construction of a database from this data. A URL > grabber like wget or curl could be used to fetch the desired pages, > and then some simple awk, sed programs to strip out and reformat > the data. > > It appears that much of the data at the WAPF site comes from a > NOAA product called "Digital Aeronautical Flight Information > File". I did a little surfing around, and found some information > on NOAA's web site. Unfortunately, the data is a little on the > expensive side. A one time purchase is 108.75 US$, and 1413.75 US$ > for a year subscription with updates every 28 days. I dont know if > the data can be freely distributed? See these pages for more info; > > http://acc.nos.noaa.gov/PriceLists/PricesNOSAero.html > http://acc.nos.noaa.gov/Catalog/DAFIF.html > > For the long term, I suspect the best option for non-US pilots is > purchasing data in ARINC 424-13 format. I haven't had a chance to > research the specifics of this format, the documentation can be > ordered :( for $100) from ARINC; > > http://www.arinc.com/Ind_Govt_Srv/Characteristics/arinc400.html > http://www.arinc.com/Ind_Govt_Srv/Characteristics/424.html > > The main advantage of this approach is that current and accurate data > in ARINC 424-13 format can be purchased from a variety of commercial > sources for just about any country. The NavData CD-ROM product from > Jeppesen is one familiar example. (By the way, I'd be interested in > expired Jepp NavData CD-ROMs if anyone has one they would be willing > to part with). The disadvantage of this approach is that it wouldn't > be free. Each pilot would likely have to purchase the data due to > the license restrictions. (Not sure of this, just a good guess?) > > For US airports, there have been some changes, some good and bad > news. Two pieces of bad news; 1) the format of the comma delimited > NFDC files has changed and that broke avdbtools, 2) as some of you > may have discovered, these files are no longer available for free > download over the Internet. Now for the good news... > > The "official" (meaning current and up to date) US National > Airspace Data can now be purchased on CD-ROM for 36 US$. They have > new releases every 56 days, and also offer a subscription service > (details below). I've never worked with the old tapes they used > to distribute, but I've heard they were a real nightmare. They > advertise the new CD-ROMs as being much easier to work with. I'll > find out shortly, as I just mailed off a check for the next release > due out in early December. Anyhow, there is some work to be done on > avdbtools to get it to work with the new format they are using. So > unless you are planning to help with that effort, don't rush out > and order this stuff just yet. Actually, it shouldn't be much work > if they distribute the "original" fixed format data files that the > comma delimited files are derived from. The older releases included > the awk scripts that are / were used to generate the comma delimited > files, and they could be tweaked to meet our needs without too much > sweat. Anyhow, here are the new web pages describing everything; > > FAA - Aeronautical Information Services > http://www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/100miss.html > FAA - National Airspace Data Distribution > http://www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/120/120nadd.html > FAA - National Flight Data Center > http://www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/110/110splsh.html > > This brings up another issue. I don't think there is a problem with > redistributing this data for free. So perhaps we can find a corporate > sponsor, or pool our money to enroll in the subscription program. > Add a few volunteers to help reformat the data when it comes in, > and we would once again have current US databases available for > everyone to download! > > Best Regards, John > > -- > ___|___ | John C. Peterson, | "Once you have flown, > -(*)- | you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there > o/ \o | you have been, there you long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci. > - > Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ > To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body > of a mail message to . - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Tue Nov 23 17:17:53 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:17:16 +0100 Received: from vector.edaind.com ([209.41.237.2]:50446 "EHLO vector.edaind.com" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:16:56 +0100 Received: by vector.edaind.com from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:10:49 +0500 Received: by vector.edaind.com from accura (209.41.237.18::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:10:48 +0500 From: "Gregory W. Ratcliff" To: Subject: US database Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:21:15 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <19991123005538.A19525@netcom3.netcom.com> Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Last yaer I was able to order the FAA database (the current one) for shipping charges only. It's 9 track tape (grin), but I have a way to move the data. If there is interest I am willing to take another shot and try to get a fresh copy, do a one time pull and post the results. Of course to limit my liability I'd put some text with the posting that would also make it sound unreliable (the big problem with a litigious world). Regards, Greg Ratcliff - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Tue Nov 23 18:21:20 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:20:52 +0100 Received: from keith.fenris.net ([158.222.0.2]:13190 "EHLO keith.fenris.net" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:20:20 +0100 Received: from murray (murray.lucentradius.com [158.222.8.15]) by keith.fenris.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23503 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:20:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991123121558.008e42d0@keith.lloyd.com> X-Sender: brian@keith.lloyd.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:15:58 -0500 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: US database In-Reply-To: References: <19991123005538.A19525@netcom3.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list At 11:21 AM 11/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >Last yaer I was able to order the FAA database (the current one) >for shipping charges only. The problem with the FAA data is that it is known to have many errors. The Jeppesen database is more expensive but is much more reliable. If you are using the FAA data, stick to VFR flight. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian@lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Nov 24 00:33:49 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:33:08 +0100 Received: from shell13.ba.best.com ([206.184.139.144]:65040 "EHLO shell13.ba.best.com" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:32:39 +0100 Received: (from jerryk@localhost) by shell13.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id PAA17889; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:32:28 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Message-Id: <199911232332.PAA17889@shell13.ba.best.com> Subject: Re: US database In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19991123121558.008e42d0@keith.lloyd.com> from Brian Lloyd at "Nov 23, 99 12:15:58 pm" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:32:28 -0800 (PST) Cc: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > At 11:21 AM 11/23/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Last yaer I was able to order the FAA database (the current one) > >for shipping charges only. > > The problem with the FAA data is that it is known to have many errors. The > Jeppesen database is more expensive but is much more reliable. If you are > using the FAA data, stick to VFR flight. *** Does this go for NOS charts and approach plates too? - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com ) - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Nov 24 00:45:46 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:44:58 +0100 Received: from keith.fenris.net ([158.222.0.2]:56454 "EHLO keith.fenris.net" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:44:26 +0100 Received: from murray (murray.lloyd.com [158.222.9.6]) by keith.fenris.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA24521 for ; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:45:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19991123184403.0091eaf0@keith.lloyd.com> X-Sender: brian@keith.lloyd.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 18:44:03 -0500 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: US database In-Reply-To: <199911232332.PAA17889@shell13.ba.best.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19991123121558.008e42d0@keith.lloyd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list At 03:32 PM 11/23/99 -0800, you wrote: >> At 11:21 AM 11/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >Last yaer I was able to order the FAA database (the current one) >> >for shipping charges only. >> >> The problem with the FAA data is that it is known to have many errors. The >> Jeppesen database is more expensive but is much more reliable. If you are >> using the FAA data, stick to VFR flight. > >*** Does this go for NOS charts and approach plates too? No. The charts are hand drawn and a human has to check these. This only applies to the digital data that the FAA maintains. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian@lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6513 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Nov 24 18:13:23 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:12:53 +0100 Received: from terra.geo.uu.nl ([131.211.29.16]:41357 "EHLO terra.geo.uu.nl" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:12:17 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com (root@mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by terra.geo.uu.nl (8.9.0/8.9.0/TvZ) with ESMTP id SAA07374 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 18:12:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=dfs) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 11qfxk-00089r-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:12:12 -0700 Received: (from dfs@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) id KAA02220 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:12:11 -0700 (MST) From: "D.F.S." Message-Id: <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Re: US database To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:12:10 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: from "Gregory W. Ratcliff" at Nov 23, 99 11:21:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > Last yaer I was able to order the FAA database (the current one) > for shipping charges only. It's 9 track tape (grin), but I have > a way to move the data. If there is interest I am willing to take > another shot and try to get a fresh copy, do a one time pull and > post the results. Of course to limit my liability I'd put some text > with the posting that would also make it sound unreliable (the big > problem with a litigious world). > We went the rounds on this about 8 years or so ago. someone got a copy and put it on a site where people could ftp it. It as a bit out of date and I tried to find someone who was at some gov'mt facility who would request the tape and I would transfer it off the 1/2 tape and keep it current. The only real risk the requester took was that as part of the deal from the feds is they expected the physical media or equiv. media returned. I offered to give th guy making the request a set of tapes as a deposit. I got no takers. The issue was other gov' agencies were entitled to the data for free. and so should I be as a citizen and tax payer, but that is another thread. About 2 years ago I found the complete set of data on an anonymous FTP server someplace. It was not an OFFICIAL release, but looked to be set up by some developers and included a few disclaimers. I'd like to find it again. I'd also like the COMPLETE set of data, I only got the airport and nav aid data sets, there are airspace and route sets as well. The problem with the jepp data, is that is is probably copyrighted. a direct copy of the gov data couldn't be the way I understand copyright law, but a FIXED version easily could and IMHO undoubtedly is. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Nov 24 19:45:17 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:44:35 +0100 Received: from netcom11.netcom.com ([199.183.9.111]:57103 "EHLO netcom.com" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 19:43:56 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04577 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:43:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 10:43:42 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: US database Message-ID: <19991124104342.A3706@netcom11.netcom.com> References: <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com>; from D.F.S. on Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 10:12:10AM -0700 Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Wed Nov 24 10:27:33 PST 1999 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list [...lots of talk about free tapes snipped...] I can appreciate taking advantage of a "deal" to save money when you can, but is messing with 9 track tapes verses CD-ROM really worth it? Personally, I don't see $36 for the new CD-ROM distribution as being unreasonable. That works out to just $216 for a one year subscription, (which also includes a 4 month notice when format changes are coming). Regards, John P.S. The woman at the FAA I spoke with to order the CD-ROM indicated that *all* the files described on the new web site are included. -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, | "Once you have flown, -(*)- | you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there o/ \o | you have been, there you long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Nov 24 21:07:55 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:07:17 +0100 Received: from truth.softcafe.net ([153.105.252.98]:4377 "EHLO truth.softcafe.net" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 21:06:42 +0100 Received: from cc72689-c (cc72689-c.nwbch1.occa.home.com [24.8.131.230]) by truth.softcafe.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA13894 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:04:17 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19991124120752.35af654a@computerbums.com> X-Sender: dcg@computerbums.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 12:07:52 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org From: Digital ChoreoGraphics Subject: Re: US database In-Reply-To: <19991124104342.A3706@netcom11.netcom.com> References: <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list What FAA woman where? Is there a phone number? What CD-ROM? Is it uncopyrighted? Could you please provide more information on where and how to get this CD-Rom? i.e. a phone number, a URL, etc. - Thanks Don At 10:43 AM 11/24/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >[...lots of talk about free tapes snipped...] > > I can appreciate taking advantage of a "deal" to save money when >you can, but is messing with 9 track tapes verses CD-ROM really worth >it? Personally, I don't see $36 for the new CD-ROM distribution as >being unreasonable. That works out to just $216 for a one year >subscription, (which also includes a 4 month notice when format >changes are coming). > >Regards, John > >P.S. The woman at the FAA I spoke with to order the CD-ROM indicated > that *all* the files described on the new web site are included. > >-- > ___|___ | John C. Peterson, | "Once you have flown, > -(*)- | you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there > o/ \o | you have been, there you long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci. >- >Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ >To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body >of a mail message to . > - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Nov 24 22:22:41 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:22:00 +0100 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com ([199.183.9.110]:19209 "EHLO netcom.com" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:21:26 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03745 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:21:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:21:12 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: US database Message-ID: <19991124132112.A3100@netcom10.netcom.com> References: <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> <19991124104342.A3706@netcom11.netcom.com> <3.0.6.16.19991124120752.35af654a@computerbums.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19991124120752.35af654a@computerbums.com>; from Digital ChoreoGraphics on Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 12:07:52PM +0000 Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Wed Nov 24 13:13:16 PST 1999 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 12:07:52PM +0000, Digital ChoreoGraphics wrote: > What FAA woman where? Is there a phone number? > What CD-ROM? Is it uncopyrighted? > Could you please provide more information on > where and how to get this CD-Rom? > i.e. a phone number, a URL, etc. > > - Thanks > Don > Huh????????? I gave all that info in my previous posting with subject; "Status of fplan airport, nav database files (long)" It was delivered here just fine. Did some subscribers not get this? Regards, John -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, KD6EKQ | Try Linux for Intel x86, because all -(*)- | mailto:jaypee@netcom.com | of the best things in life are free! o/ \o | San Diego, CA U.S.A | See http://www.linux.org/ for info - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Nov 24 23:00:17 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:59:30 +0100 Received: from terra.geo.uu.nl ([131.211.29.16]:32405 "EHLO terra.geo.uu.nl" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:59:01 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com (root@mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by terra.geo.uu.nl (8.9.0/8.9.0/TvZ) with ESMTP id WAA12600 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 22:58:59 +0100 (MET) Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 11qkR9-0005hd-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:58:51 -0700 Received: (from dfs@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) id OAA12383 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:58:50 -0700 (MST) From: "D.F.S." Message-Id: <199911242158.OAA12383@xmission.xmission.com> Subject: Re: US database To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 14:58:50 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <19991124104342.A3706@netcom11.netcom.com> from "John C. Peterson" at Nov 24, 99 10:43:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > > [...lots of talk about free tapes snipped...] > > I can appreciate taking advantage of a "deal" to save money when > you can, but is messing with 9 track tapes verses CD-ROM really worth > it? Personally, I don't see $36 for the new CD-ROM distribution as > being unreasonable. That works out to just $216 for a one year > subscription, (which also includes a 4 month notice when format > changes are coming). > As a talker of free tapes, I agree. I replied to that messages before I saw the Info on the CD-ROM distribution. I'm still of the opinion that data should be spread far and wide and for free, 'cause the fee they are charging SHOULD be just to cover cost of distribution, the info should be free. If "We" take over the distribution, our costs should be almost nothing. Marc I have/had code to parse the stuff into C Structures and it could be packed WAY down from the original format by using flags packed into bits and numbers stuck into Numeric Variables and not Text. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Nov 25 00:43:02 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:42:03 +0100 Received: from truth.softcafe.net ([153.105.252.98]:5667 "EHLO truth.softcafe.net" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 00:41:35 +0100 Received: from cc72689-c (cc72689-c.nwbch1.occa.home.com [24.8.131.230]) by truth.softcafe.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA14182 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:39:11 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19991124154241.3e6f53f2@computerbums.com> X-Sender: dcg@computerbums.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:42:41 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org From: Digital ChoreoGraphics Subject: Re: US database In-Reply-To: <19991124132112.A3100@netcom10.netcom.com> References: <3.0.6.16.19991124120752.35af654a@computerbums.com> <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> <19991124104342.A3706@netcom11.netcom.com> <3.0.6.16.19991124120752.35af654a@computerbums.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list It would appear so. At 01:21 PM 11/24/1999 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 12:07:52PM +0000, Digital ChoreoGraphics wrote: >> What FAA woman where? Is there a phone number? >> What CD-ROM? Is it uncopyrighted? >> Could you please provide more information on >> where and how to get this CD-Rom? >> i.e. a phone number, a URL, etc. >> >> - Thanks >> Don >> > >Huh????????? I gave all that info in my previous posting with subject; > > "Status of fplan airport, nav database files (long)" > >It was delivered here just fine. Did some subscribers not get this? > >Regards, John > >-- > ___|___ | John C. Peterson, KD6EKQ | Try Linux for Intel x86, because all > -(*)- | mailto:jaypee@netcom.com | of the best things in life are free! > o/ \o | San Diego, CA U.S.A | See http://www.linux.org/ for info >- >Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ >To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body >of a mail message to . > - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Nov 25 01:18:19 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 01:17:34 +0100 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com ([199.183.9.110]:15119 "EHLO netcom.com" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 01:17:13 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27518 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:17:11 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:17:10 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: US database Message-ID: <19991124161710.A27204@netcom10.netcom.com> References: <3.0.6.16.19991124120752.35af654a@computerbums.com> <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> <199911241712.KAA02220@xmission.xmission.com> <19991124104342.A3706@netcom11.netcom.com> <3.0.6.16.19991124120752.35af654a@computerbums.com> <19991124132112.A3100@netcom10.netcom.com> <3.0.6.16.19991124154241.3e6f53f2@computerbums.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.19991124154241.3e6f53f2@computerbums.com>; from Digital ChoreoGraphics on Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 03:42:41PM +0000 Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Wed Nov 24 16:11:36 PST 1999 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 03:42:41PM +0000, Digital ChoreoGraphics wrote: > It would appear so. > > At 01:21 PM 11/24/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 12:07:52PM +0000, Digital ChoreoGraphics wrote: > >> What FAA woman where? Is there a phone number? > >Huh????????? I gave all that info in my previous posting with subject; > > > > "Status of fplan airport, nav database files (long)" > > > >It was delivered here just fine. Did some subscribers not get this? > > OK, I'll check with Rik Riel to see if anything with Majordomo needs attention. For now, I'll repost it again for those that may not have received it. Regards, John -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, | "Once you have flown, -(*)- | you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there o/ \o | you have been, there you long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Nov 25 01:20:24 1999 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 01:19:53 +0100 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com ([199.183.9.110]:20495 "EHLO netcom.com" smtp-auth: ) by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 25 Nov 1999 01:19:26 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27583 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:19:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 16:19:23 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: REPOST: Status of fplan airport, nav database files (long) Message-ID: <19991124161923.A27556@netcom10.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Wed Nov 24 16:18:39 PST 1999 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Greetings Everyone... Now that the long summer days are a thing of the past, I've finally found some time to get back to work on fplan. Things may be a little slow with all the holiday stuff coming up, but I should have more time on my hands. On that note, I wanted to post an update on the status of the fplan airport, nav database files. First off, I know that you pilots outside of the US may be feeling a little left out with regard to the database files, so let me address that situation first. I can appreciate your frustrations as I had the opportunity to experienced it myself with my vacation to Sweden and Germany this summer. The one little bit of good news I have to offer, is that I have discovered a web site that has lots of free data (for most of the world). It's called the "Worldwide Airport Path Finder" and is hosted by Falling Rain Genomics. Inc. They clearly state that the data may be inaccurate or obsolete. However, this might serve as a good starting point for those willing to do a little of their own data validation. The site is at; http://www.fallingrain.com/air/airports.cgi http://www.fallingrain.com/air/cache/geo/stats.html A short term solution that uses this data might not be that difficult. It should be possible to cobble together a script to automate the construction of a database from this data. A URL grabber like wget or curl could be used to fetch the desired pages, and then some simple awk, sed programs to strip out and reformat the data. It appears that much of the data at the WAPF site comes from a NOAA product called "Digital Aeronautical Flight Information File". I did a little surfing around, and found some information on NOAA's web site. Unfortunately, the data is a little on the expensive side. A one time purchase is 108.75 US$, and 1413.75 US$ for a year subscription with updates every 28 days. I dont know if the data can be freely distributed? See these pages for more info; http://acc.nos.noaa.gov/PriceLists/PricesNOSAero.html http://acc.nos.noaa.gov/Catalog/DAFIF.html For the long term, I suspect the best option for non-US pilots is purchasing data in ARINC 424-13 format. I haven't had a chance to research the specifics of this format, the documentation can be ordered :( for $100) from ARINC; http://www.arinc.com/Ind_Govt_Srv/Characteristics/arinc400.html http://www.arinc.com/Ind_Govt_Srv/Characteristics/424.html The main advantage of this approach is that current and accurate data in ARINC 424-13 format can be purchased from a variety of commercial sources for just about any country. The NavData CD-ROM product from Jeppesen is one familiar example. (By the way, I'd be interested in expired Jepp NavData CD-ROMs if anyone has one they would be willing to part with). The disadvantage of this approach is that it wouldn't be free. Each pilot would likely have to purchase the data due to the license restrictions. (Not sure of this, just a good guess?) For US airports, there have been some changes, some good and bad news. Two pieces of bad news; 1) the format of the comma delimited NFDC files has changed and that broke avdbtools, 2) as some of you may have discovered, these files are no longer available for free download over the Internet. Now for the good news... The "official" (meaning current and up to date) US National Airspace Data can now be purchased on CD-ROM for 36 US$. They have new releases every 56 days, and also offer a subscription service (details below). I've never worked with the old tapes they used to distribute, but I've heard they were a real nightmare. They advertise the new CD-ROMs as being much easier to work with. I'll find out shortly, as I just mailed off a check for the next release due out in early December. Anyhow, there is some work to be done on avdbtools to get it to work with the new format they are using. So unless you are planning to help with that effort, don't rush out and order this stuff just yet. Actually, it shouldn't be much work if they distribute the "original" fixed format data files that the comma delimited files are derived from. The older releases included the awk scripts that are / were used to generate the comma delimited files, and they could be tweaked to meet our needs without too much sweat. Anyhow, here are the new web pages describing everything; FAA - Aeronautical Information Services http://www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/100miss.html FAA - National Airspace Data Distribution http://www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/120/120nadd.html FAA - National Flight Data Center http://www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/110/110splsh.html This brings up another issue. I don't think there is a problem with redistributing this data for free. So perhaps we can find a corporate sponsor, or pool our money to enroll in the subscription program. Add a few volunteers to help reformat the data when it comes in, and we would once again have current US databases available for everyone to download! Best Regards, John -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, | "Once you have flown, -(*)- | you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there o/ \o | you have been, there you long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to .