From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 24 20:11:11 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:10:16 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:26373 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:09:41 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12Cop7-0004R7-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:06:49 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12Cop6-0006TO-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:06:48 -0700 Subject: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:06:48 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list So did we ever come up with a way and place to post this on the web, ftp site or at the very least distribute it within the list? I'll order the CD if necessary. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Jan 26 20:34:51 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:34:07 +0100 Received: from netcom12.netcom.com ([199.183.9.112]:37132 "EHLO netcom.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:33:34 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01574 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:30:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:30:42 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 Message-ID: <20000126113042.A186@netcom12.netcom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from dfs@xmission.com on Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:06:48PM -0700 Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Wed Jan 26 11:05:17 PST 2000 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:06:48PM -0700, D.F.S. wrote: > So did we ever come up with a way and place to post this on the > web, ftp site or at the very least distribute it within the list? > > I'll order the CD if necessary. > I think we are waiting for someone to offer to provide the resources required. The files are way too large to post to the list, we would need an http or ftp server with good connectivity. If the files are compressed with "gzip -9", the storage resources required are about 14 Mb, with "bzip2 -9" about 8 Mb. (I posted a detailed summary of various commpression methods on Wed, Dec 15, 1999). I e-mailed the woman at the FAA about the copyright status of the data. The response I got was not very clear, and I have been planning to call her by phone but haven't got around to it quite yet as she is 3 time zones away and has rather odd hours... John -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, | "Once you have flown, -(*)- | you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there o/ \o | you have been, there you long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Jan 26 20:51:05 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:50:25 +0100 Received: from terra.geo.uu.nl ([131.211.29.16]:9721 "EHLO terra.geo.uu.nl") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:49:47 +0100 Received: from smtp.umr.edu (mrelay.cc.umr.edu [131.151.1.89]) by terra.geo.uu.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3/TvZ) with ESMTP id UAA17156 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:47:05 +0100 (MET) Received: from umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu (umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu [131.151.37.121]) via ESMTP by mrelay.cc.umr.edu (8.9.3/R.4.20) id NAA09022; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:46:13 -0600 Received: by umr-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:46:19 -0600 Message-ID: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EEFE7@umr-mail02> From: "Neulinger, Nathan R." To: "'linux-aviation@nl.linux.org'" Subject: RE: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:46:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list I'll be happy to host them on www.unixtools.org. As far as copyright goes, my understanding (IANAL) is that no federal document can be copywritten. Some legislation or something prevents it. But I may be wrong. -- Nathan ------------------------------------------------------------ Nathan Neulinger EMail: nneul@umr.edu University of Missouri - Rolla Phone: (573) 341-4841 Computing Services Fax: (573) 341-4216 > -----Original Message----- > From: John C. Peterson [mailto:jaypee@netcom.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 1:31 PM > To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org > Subject: Re: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:06:48PM -0700, D.F.S. wrote: > > So did we ever come up with a way and place to post this on the > > web, ftp site or at the very least distribute it within the list? > > > > I'll order the CD if necessary. > > > I think we are waiting for someone to offer to provide the > resources required. The files are way too large to post to the > list, we would need an http or ftp server with good connectivity. > If the files are compressed with "gzip -9", the storage resources > required are about 14 Mb, with "bzip2 -9" about 8 Mb. (I posted a > detailed summary of various commpression methods on Wed, Dec 15, > 1999). > > I e-mailed the woman at the FAA about the copyright status > of the data. The response I got was not very clear, and I have been > planning to call her by phone but haven't got around to it quite > yet as she is 3 time zones away and has rather odd hours... > > John > > -- > ___|___ | John C. Peterson, | "Once you > have flown, > -(*)- | you will walk the earth with your eyes turned > skyward, for there > o/ \o | you have been, there you long to return." -- > Leonardo da Vinci. > - > Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Jan 26 21:12:13 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:11:15 +0100 Received: from bibsyst.bibsyst.no ([193.90.32.70]:33274 "EHLO bibsyst.bibsyst.no") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:10:26 +0100 Received: from bibsyst.no by bibsyst.bibsyst.no with esmtp (Linux Smail3.2.0.92 #6) id m12DYij-0006WYC; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:07:17 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <388F53FF.7F85CC3A@bibsyst.no> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:07:27 +0100 From: Torkel Hasle Organization: Bibliotek-Systemer As X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 References: <20000126113042.A186@netcom12.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list "John C. Peterson" wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:06:48PM -0700, D.F.S. wrote: > > So did we ever come up with a way and place to post this on the > > web, ftp site or at the very least distribute it within the list? > > > > I'll order the CD if necessary. > > > I think we are waiting for someone to offer to provide the > resources required. The files are way too large to post to the > list, we would need an http or ftp server with good connectivity. > If the files are compressed with "gzip -9", the storage resources > required are about 14 Mb, with "bzip2 -9" about 8 Mb. (I posted a > detailed summary of various commpression methods on Wed, Dec 15, > 1999). > > I e-mailed the woman at the FAA about the copyright status > of the data. The response I got was not very clear, and I have been > planning to call her by phone but haven't got around to it quite > yet as she is 3 time zones away and has rather odd hours... > We have web/ftp-server here in Norway, Europe(59N, 10E) with 2 Mbit connection to the net, and good connectivity to the US. We are mirroring Linux LDP (the first i Norway), Apache and Samba (from Australia) dayly, and have been using Linux since 1993. Pls give us a msg if you want us to host the files. We can arrange for a virtual web-server, if that is of interest. We ca set upt an rsync server (very easy an efficient for mirroring). -regards Torkel Hasle -- [ Torkel Hasle, Bibliotek-Systemer A/S, N-3271 Larvik, Norway ] [ tel: +47 331 16 800 fax: +47 331 16 822 mailto:torkel@bibsyst.no ] - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Jan 26 21:33:55 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:33:04 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:64011 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:32:24 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12DZ4O-0003ib-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:29:40 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12DZ4N-0006fm-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:29:39 -0700 Subject: Re: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:29:39 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <20000126113042.A186@netcom12.netcom.com> from "John C. Peterson" at Jan 26, 2000 11:30:42 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:06:48PM -0700, D.F.S. wrote: > > So did we ever come up with a way and place to post this on the > > web, ftp site or at the very least distribute it within the list? > > > > I'll order the CD if necessary. > > > I think we are waiting for someone to offer to provide the > resources required. The files are way too large to post to the > list, we would need an http or ftp server with good connectivity. > If the files are compressed with "gzip -9", the storage resources > required are about 14 Mb, with "bzip2 -9" about 8 Mb. (I posted a > detailed summary of various commpression methods on Wed, Dec 15, > 1999). As an aside related to compression. Recently as part of a quest to enable backups spooled data I went looking for a better compression program. In this case "Better" was faster. I was spooling ~36 gigabytes of data off to a disk for later writing to tape. Gzip and Compress was taking ~7-8 hours A straight file copy took 1 hr 10 minutes. I got a copy of a C library that does compression Lzo If I recall. It is designed for realtime compression use. There is a small subset library that is about 16K. I got a gzip compatible program based on that library as well. That program copied and compresses the files in just under 2 hours. It generated files ~5% larger than the Gzip files. Changing the files from a fixed length format should save a bunch of space, but in addition, using a compression library to process them on the fly could have real advantages. Esp. if we are talking embedded type machines. I consider a $50.00 laptop stuffed under a seat and the screen velcro'd to the panel "Embedded" in this case. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Wed Jan 26 21:55:10 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:54:41 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:7949 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:54:10 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12DZPT-000893-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:51:27 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12DZPR-0007Vk-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:51:25 -0700 Subject: Re: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:51:25 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EEFE7@umr-mail02> from "Neulinger, Nathan R." at Jan 26, 2000 01:46:17 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > I'll be happy to host them on www.unixtools.org. > > As far as copyright goes, my understanding (IANAL) is that no federal > document can be copywritten. Some legislation or something prevents it. But > I may be wrong. > That is my understanding as well. Could we also put related processing and list related software packages there as well? Snip > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:06:48PM -0700, D.F.S. wrote: > > > So did we ever come up with a way and place to post this on the > > > web, ftp site or at the very least distribute it within the list? > > > > > > I'll order the CD if necessary. > > > > > I think we are waiting for someone to offer to provide the > > resources required. The files are way too large to post to the > > list, Maybe that was not clear from my original post. I don't mean to suggest mailing it thru the list, more along the lines of putting it someplace for a limited time and notifying the members and allowing something like a week for everyone to get it. Less of a chance of drawing attention to the fact it's out there if there is a concern someone may get upset it's out there. It would appear the internal engrs. that posted the old copy were shut down by someone. Then again maybe the guy maintaining it just got another job, who knows. I'd be happy to write and post some perl code to split all the files into some delimited format. I'd also like to see them in a relational database of some sort as well. There is or at least was a free copy of oracle kicking around for linux, but that would be overkill probably. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Jan 27 00:07:02 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:06:16 +0100 Received: from ns1.atww.net ([209.8.220.10]:1040 "EHLO ns1.atww.net") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:05:36 +0100 Received: from phzzzt.atww.net (phzzzt.atww.net [209.8.220.30]) by ns1.atww.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21938 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:02:46 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by phzzzt.atww.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id SAA29866 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:02:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (alan@localhost) by mattress.atww.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24300 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:00:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:00:53 -0500 (EST) From: "A. Reichert" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 In-Reply-To: <20000126113042.A186@netcom12.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, John C. Peterson wrote: > On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:06:48PM -0700, D.F.S. wrote: > > So did we ever come up with a way and place to post this on the > > web, ftp site or at the very least distribute it within the list? > > > > I'll order the CD if necessary. > > > I think we are waiting for someone to offer to provide the > resources required. The files are way too large to post to the > list, we would need an http or ftp server with good connectivity. > If the files are compressed with "gzip -9", the storage resources > required are about 14 Mb, with "bzip2 -9" about 8 Mb. (I posted a > detailed summary of various commpression methods on Wed, Dec 15, > 1999). I had offered resources back then, assuming size was not too large. I don't think this size will be a problem (192K connection), but I see other offers with a lot better bandwidth. If other offers fall through for some reason, and the copyright issue turns out to be a non-issue, the offer still stands. > I e-mailed the woman at the FAA about the copyright status > of the data. The response I got was not very clear, and I have been > planning to call her by phone but haven't got around to it quite > yet as she is 3 time zones away and has rather odd hours... > > John [chomp] - Alan - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Jan 27 00:27:32 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:26:48 +0100 Received: from mail.frc.com ([208.235.135.211]:57072 "EHLO mailsrv.frc.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:26:01 +0100 Received: from hqmail01.frc.com ([172.20.12.21]) by mailsrv.frc.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA145F for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:23:14 -0500 Received: by hqmail01.frc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:23:13 -0500 Message-ID: <2513CDDD84CED211BAC60008C75D45B102C819AE@hqmail01.frc.com> From: "Meier, Robert" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: RE: U.S. government copyright ownership (Was RE: US National Airs pace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120) Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:23:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > As far as copyright goes, my understanding (IANAL) is that no federal > document can be copywritten. I may be wrong, but I believe that this incorrect. I understand that the U.S. government (NASA, GAO, GPO, etc.) is the largest holder of U.S. copyrights, trademarks, and patents. > Some legislation or something prevents it. I believe that there is legislation that grants non-exclusive limitted copy-and-use authority to any U.S. citizen for material produced with taxpayer money. The major limits are that you cannot further limit others use of the material, and that alterations, deletions, and additions must be clearly indicated. I was somewhat miffed when I found out that NASA had filed patent claims on orbital rendezvous techniques that I detailed in a report and did not name me on the patent. I immediately went to "The Rolling Stones" by Robert Heinlein and confirmed that one of the techniques was described in detail and should not therefore have been patentable. I was informed that NASA had a standard policy of filing a flood of patent claims, mostly frivilous. This allowed any U.S. citizen to then use the material, including NASA, without having to fight someone over the use of a "non-linear inertia-based deformation delivery system", better known as a hammer. Copyright of United States Code, Code of Federal Regulations, Federal Register, etc. are owned AFAIK by the GPO. Obtaining these directly from the GPO usually involves unreasonably high price tags. The most commonly used portions, are usually available at lower prices from interested copiers. Annually, the ASA sells millions of copies of excerpts from the Code of Federal Regulations, as "FAR/AIM". Robert J. Meier FANUC Robotics North America tel:+1.248.377.7469 mailto:robert.meier@fanucrobotics.com - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Jan 27 00:38:15 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:37:13 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:62218 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:36:36 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12DbwS-0005Ml-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:33:40 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12DbwR-0006re-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:33:39 -0700 Subject: Re: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:33:39 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: from "A. Reichert" at Jan 26, 2000 06:00:53 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > > On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, John C. Peterson wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2000 at 12:06:48PM -0700, D.F.S. wrote: > > > So did we ever come up with a way and place to post this on the > > > web, ftp site or at the very least distribute it within the list? > > > > > > I'll order the CD if necessary. > > > > > I think we are waiting for someone to offer to provide the > > resources required. The files are way too large to post to the > > list, we would need an http or ftp server with good connectivity. > > If the files are compressed with "gzip -9", the storage resources > > required are about 14 Mb, with "bzip2 -9" about 8 Mb. (I posted a > > detailed summary of various commpression methods on Wed, Dec 15, > > 1999). > > I had offered resources back then, assuming size was not too large. I > don't think this size will be a problem (192K connection), but I see other > offers with a lot better bandwidth. If other offers fall through for some > reason, and the copyright issue turns out to be a non-issue, the offer > still stands. That was where I had a problem, I remembered it this way as well. I thought it was taken care of and it had a home as soon as it was copied there. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Jan 27 21:41:30 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:36:14 +0100 Received: from netcom13.netcom.com ([199.183.9.113]:48644 "EHLO netcom.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:30:17 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09735 for linux-aviation@mail.nl.linux.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:24:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:24:51 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Copyright status of National Airspace Data Message-ID: <20000127122450.A9377@netcom13.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Thu Jan 27 12:15:03 PST 2000 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list I spoke with Warren Davis at the FAA this morning about the copyright status of the data. Basically he told me that there wouldn't be a problem sharing the data. The only thing he expressed reservations about was the reselling of the data, so I dont think we will have a problem. I did urge him to include some type of README or other file on the CD-ROM to clarify the whole copyright issue. He agreed and said they would try to put something together for future releases. Anyhow, I'll wait another day or two and see what our best offer is in the way of a hosting arrangement. My hats off to those of you that have offered resources. I'll get in touch with whoever has the best site to make arrangements for transfer of the data (my copy of the CD-ROM is good until late Feb). Regards, John -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, | "Once you have flown, -(*)- | you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there o/ \o | you have been, there you long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Jan 27 22:47:10 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:41:46 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:60175 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:37:11 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12DwYe-0001y8-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:34:28 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12DwYd-0002uW-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:34:27 -0700 Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:34:27 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <20000127122450.A9377@netcom13.netcom.com> from "John C. Peterson" at Jan 27, 2000 12:24:51 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > > I spoke with Warren Davis at the FAA this morning about the copyright > status of the data. Basically he told me that there wouldn't be a problem > sharing the data. The only thing he expressed reservations about was the > reselling of the data, so I dont think we will have a problem. > > I did urge him to include some type of README or other file on the > CD-ROM to clarify the whole copyright issue. He agreed and said they > would try to put something together for future releases. > > Anyhow, I'll wait another day or two and see what our best offer is > in the way of a hosting arrangement. My hats off to those of you that > have offered resources. I'll get in touch with whoever has the best site > to make arrangements for transfer of the data (my copy of the CD-ROM > is good until late Feb). > > Regards, John Do you have a subscription, or was this a one off purchase? Do we want to set up some way to share the cost of these things? Any ideas? Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Jan 27 22:54:20 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:53:45 +0100 Received: from mail.me.umn.edu ([134.84.18.15]:28434 "EHLO mail.me.umn.edu") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:53:18 +0100 Received: from kenai.me.umn.edu (root@kenai.me.umn.edu [134.84.18.22]) by mail.me.umn.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA53246 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:50:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from curt@me.umn.edu) Received: (from curt@localhost) by kenai.me.umn.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id PAA03029; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:50:35 -0600 From: "Curtis L. Olson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14480.48555.540714.155298@kenai.me.umn.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:50:35 -0600 (CST) To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data In-Reply-To: References: <20000127122450.A9377@netcom13.netcom.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > I spoke with Warren Davis at the FAA this morning about the copyright > > status of the data. Basically he told me that there wouldn't be a problem > > sharing the data. The only thing he expressed reservations about was the > > reselling of the data, so I dont think we will have a problem. > > > > I did urge him to include some type of README or other file on the > > CD-ROM to clarify the whole copyright issue. He agreed and said they > > would try to put something together for future releases. > > > > Anyhow, I'll wait another day or two and see what our best offer is > > in the way of a hosting arrangement. My hats off to those of you that > > have offered resources. I'll get in touch with whoever has the best site > > to make arrangements for transfer of the data (my copy of the CD-ROM > > is good until late Feb). Apologies, but I missed or forgot the first half of this thread. What kind of data is provided on this cdrom? Is there a web site where I could find this out for myself? Regards, Curt. -- Curtis Olson University of MN, ME Dept. Flight Gear Project Twin Cities curt@me.umn.edu curt@flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Jan 27 23:56:18 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:55:23 +0100 Received: from netcom3.netcom.com ([199.183.9.103]:57616 "EHLO netcom.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:54:27 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27750 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:50:21 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:50:21 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data Message-ID: <20000127145021.B26325@netcom3.netcom.com> References: <20000127122450.A9377@netcom13.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from dfs@xmission.com on Thu, Jan 27, 2000 at 02:34:27PM -0700 Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Thu Jan 27 14:27:04 PST 2000 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list On Thu, Jan 27, 2000 at 02:34:27PM -0700, D.F.S. wrote: > > > > > > I spoke with Warren Davis at the FAA this morning about the copyright > > status of the data. Basically he told me that there wouldn't be a problem > > sharing the data. The only thing he expressed reservations about was the > > reselling of the data, so I dont think we will have a problem. > > [...snip...] > > Regards, John > > Do you have a subscription, or was this a one off purchase? > > Do we want to set up some way to share the cost of these things? > This was a one time purchase (for $36 including FedEx shipping). I too would like to see some type of cost sharing, but there was zero response the last time I suggested this. A one year subscription is just $216 (updates every 56 days..) How about it guys? Regards, John -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, KD6EKQ | Try Linux for Intel x86, it's the -(*)- | mailto:jaypee@netcom.com | Ferarri of 32 bit operating systems! o/ \o | San Diego, CA U.S.A | See http://www.linux.org/ for info - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Thu Jan 27 23:58:04 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:57:22 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:5133 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:56:13 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12Dxn2-0000Qb-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:53:24 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12Dxn1-0005Rx-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:53:23 -0700 Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:53:23 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <14480.48555.540714.155298@kenai.me.umn.edu> from "Curtis L. Olson" at Jan 27, 2000 03:50:35 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > Apologies, but I missed or forgot the first half of this thread. What > kind of data is provided on this cdrom? Is there a web site where I > could find this out for myself? > It is the FAA Airspace and facility data. The site, if I can type it all in correctly: www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/120/120stan.html. It has airport info, nav aid info, control center freq., boundaries restricted airspace, ils info, airspace fixes.... more crap than you can shake a stick at. The file names on that page link to descriptions of the data fields themselves. The descriptions don't do justice to some of the contents. There is info in the files I would not have realized was there just from the descriptions. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 00:10:42 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:10:17 +0100 Received: from mail.me.umn.edu ([134.84.18.15]:28428 "EHLO mail.me.umn.edu") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:09:36 +0100 Received: from kenai.me.umn.edu (root@kenai.me.umn.edu [134.84.18.22]) by mail.me.umn.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA57055 for ; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:06:54 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from curt@me.umn.edu) Received: (from curt@localhost) by kenai.me.umn.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA03334; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:06:54 -0600 From: "Curtis L. Olson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14480.53134.35815.82580@kenai.me.umn.edu> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:06:54 -0600 (CST) To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data In-Reply-To: References: <14480.48555.540714.155298@kenai.me.umn.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list D.F.S. writes: > It is the FAA Airspace and facility data. > > The site, if I can type it all in correctly: > > www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/120/120stan.html. > > It has airport info, nav aid info, control center freq., boundaries > restricted airspace, ils info, airspace fixes.... > > more crap than you can shake a stick at. > > The file names on that page link to descriptions of the data > fields themselves. > > > The descriptions don't do justice to some of the contents. > There is info in the files I would not have realized was there > just from the descriptions. Is there information on this cd that would assist in building 3d models of airports (runway position/features/lighting, taxiways, tower positions, hanger positions, etc.) Curt. -- Curtis Olson University of MN, ME Dept. Flight Gear Project Twin Cities curt@me.umn.edu curt@flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 15:11:03 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:10:24 +0100 Received: from gate.hhsys.org ([207.230.93.66]:22284 "EHLO gate.hhsys.org") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:09:51 +0100 Received: (from mail@localhost) by gate.hhsys.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05910 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:07:08 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: gate.hhsys.org: mail set sender to using -f Received: from ldap.hhsys.int(192.168.7.34) by gate.hhsys.org via smap (V2.1) id xma005904; Fri, 28 Jan 00 08:06:42 -0600 Received: from cathyb.hhsys.int (cathyb.hhsys.int [192.168.158.100]) by ldap.hhsys.int (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23871 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:57:59 -0600 From: Larry Walls To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data In-Reply-To: <14480.53134.35815.82580@kenai.me.umn.edu> Message-ID: Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:06:34 -0600 (Central Standard Time) X-Mailer: Simeon for Win32 Version 4.1.2 Build (32) X-Authentication: IMSP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list As long as we are sure there are no copyright problems, I would offer my web server as well. It is located in the US and space is not an issue. The server currently runs www.eracer.org as well as a couple of listservers. Connection is via a 1 MB frame relay. I am currently preparing to install a new server and update the operating system to RedHat Linux 6.1 On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:06:54 -0600 (CST) "Curtis L. Olson" wrote: > D.F.S. writes: > > It is the FAA Airspace and facility data. > > > > The site, if I can type it all in correctly: > > > > www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/120/120stan.html. > > > > It has airport info, nav aid info, control center freq., boundaries > > restricted airspace, ils info, airspace fixes.... > > > > more crap than you can shake a stick at. > > > > The file names on that page link to descriptions of the data > > fields themselves. > > > > > > The descriptions don't do justice to some of the contents. > > There is info in the files I would not have realized was there > > just from the descriptions. > > Is there information on this cd that would assist in building 3d > models of airports (runway position/features/lighting, taxiways, tower > positions, hanger positions, etc.) > > Curt. > -- > Curtis Olson University of MN, ME Dept. Flight Gear Project > Twin Cities curt@me.umn.edu curt@flightgear.org > Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org > - > Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ > To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body > of a mail message to . ---------------------- Larry Walls VEZ 1344Z larryw@CIO.hhsys.org - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 15:30:45 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:29:43 +0100 Received: from vector.edaind.com ([209.41.237.2]:20752 "EHLO vector.edaind.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:29:02 +0100 Received: by vector.edaind.com from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:21:22 +0500 Received: by vector.edaind.com from accura (209.41.237.18::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:21:22 +0500 From: "Gregory W. Ratcliff" To: Subject: RE: Copyright status of National Airspace Data Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:26:25 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <20000127145021.B26325@netcom3.netcom.com> Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list I'm in. With other open projects I've been involved with we've always done the "commit" part first, then we do division...then collection. $216.00/20 (Can we get 20?) 1. Gregory W. Ratcliff 2. 3. 4. GregR > This was a one time purchase (for $36 including FedEx shipping). I too would like to see some type of cost sharing, but there was zero response the last time I suggested this. A one year subscription is just $216 (updates every 56 days..) How about it guys? Regards, John -- - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 15:31:53 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:30:56 +0100 Received: from terra.geo.uu.nl ([131.211.29.16]:15580 "EHLO terra.geo.uu.nl") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:29:47 +0100 Received: from smtp.umr.edu (mrelay.cc.umr.edu [131.151.1.89]) by terra.geo.uu.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3/TvZ) with ESMTP id PAA06643 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:27:06 +0100 (MET) Received: from umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu (umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu [131.151.37.121]) via ESMTP by mrelay.cc.umr.edu (8.9.3/R.4.20) id IAA08026; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:26:13 -0600 Received: by umr-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:26:19 -0600 Message-ID: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EEFF2@umr-mail02> From: "Neulinger, Nathan R." To: "'linux-aviation@nl.linux.org'" Subject: RE: Copyright status of National Airspace Data Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:26:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list What I would suggest is that we pick someone to be the primary server, and just set up a bunch of mirrors. Perhaps the primary server could also have some useful domain name. -- Nathan ------------------------------------------------------------ Nathan Neulinger EMail: nneul@umr.edu University of Missouri - Rolla Phone: (573) 341-4841 Computing Services Fax: (573) 341-4216 > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Walls [mailto:larryw@CIO.hhsys.org] > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 8:07 AM > To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org > Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data > > > As long as we are sure there are no copyright problems, I > would offer my web server as well. It is located in the US > and space is not an issue. The server currently runs > www.eracer.org as well as a couple of listservers. > Connection is via a 1 MB frame relay. > > I am currently preparing to install a new server and update > the operating system to RedHat Linux 6.1 > > > On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:06:54 -0600 (CST) "Curtis L. Olson" > wrote: > > > D.F.S. writes: > > > It is the FAA Airspace and facility data. > > > > > > The site, if I can type it all in correctly: > > > > > > www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/120/120stan.html. > > > > > > It has airport info, nav aid info, control center freq., > boundaries > > > restricted airspace, ils info, airspace fixes.... > > > > > > more crap than you can shake a stick at. > > > > > > The file names on that page link to descriptions of the data > > > fields themselves. > > > > > > > > > The descriptions don't do justice to some of the contents. > > > There is info in the files I would not have realized was there > > > just from the descriptions. > > > > Is there information on this cd that would assist in building 3d > > models of airports (runway position/features/lighting, > taxiways, tower > > positions, hanger positions, etc.) > > > > Curt. > > -- > > Curtis Olson University of MN, ME Dept. Flight Gear Project > > Twin Cities curt@me.umn.edu curt@flightgear.org > > Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org > - > Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ > To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body > of a mail message to . ---------------------- Larry Walls VEZ 1344Z larryw@CIO.hhsys.org - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 15:43:18 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:42:25 +0100 Received: from mail.frc.com ([208.235.135.211]:25239 "EHLO mailsrv.frc.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 15:41:56 +0100 Received: from hqmail01.frc.com ([172.20.12.21]) by mailsrv.frc.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAB6DF4 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:39:07 -0500 Received: by hqmail01.frc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:39:05 -0500 Message-ID: <2513CDDD84CED211BAC60008C75D45B102C81AAE@hqmail01.frc.com> From: "Meier, Robert" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: RE: Copyright status of National Airspace Data Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:38:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list John, > I'm in. With other open projects I've been involved > with we've always done the "commit" part first, then > we do division...then collection. > > $216.00/20 (Can we get 20?) > > 1. Gregory W. Ratcliff > 2. mailto:robert.meier@fanucrobotics.com > 3. > 4. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 16:14:18 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:13:32 +0100 Received: from vector.edaind.com ([209.41.237.2]:26896 "EHLO vector.edaind.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:13:08 +0100 Received: by vector.edaind.com from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:10:26 +0500 Received: by vector.edaind.com from accura (209.41.237.18::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:10:25 +0500 From: "Gregory W. Ratcliff" To: Subject: RE: Copyright status of National Airspace Data Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:15:29 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <2513CDDD84CED211BAC60008C75D45B102C81AAE@hqmail01.frc.com> Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Good Format! GregR John, > I'm in. With other open projects I've been involved > with we've always done the "commit" part first, then > we do division...then collection. > > $216.00/20 (Can we get 20?) > > 1. mailto:gwr@edaind.com > 2. mailto:robert.meier@fanucrobotics.com > 3. > 4. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 17:01:51 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:01:04 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:2063 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:00:33 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12EDmP-0003Ew-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:57:49 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12EDmO-0005XX-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:57:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:57:48 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <14480.53134.35815.82580@kenai.me.umn.edu> from "Curtis L. Olson" at Jan 27, 2000 05:06:54 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > D.F.S. writes: > > It is the FAA Airspace and facility data. > > > > The site, if I can type it all in correctly: > > > > www.faa.gov/nfdcata100/120/120stan.html. > > > > It has airport info, nav aid info, control center freq., boundaries > > restricted airspace, ils info, airspace fixes.... > > > > more crap than you can shake a stick at. > > > > The file names on that page link to descriptions of the data > > fields themselves. > > > > > > The descriptions don't do justice to some of the contents. > > There is info in the files I would not have realized was there > > just from the descriptions. > > Is there information on this cd that would assist in building 3d > models of airports (runway position/features/lighting, taxiways, tower > positions, hanger positions, etc.) > runway position/features/lighting, Lots of runway info: Width, surface Type, lat/lon/alt of each end of all runways, light types Visual glideslope type info. taxiways, I don't think so. tower positions, Possibly in the control facility file or as an obstruction?? hanger positions No. This is all of the top of me head and from data many years old. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 17:15:02 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:14:33 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:15113 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:14:03 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12EDzU-0006Dj-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:11:20 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12EDzS-0005ze-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:11:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:11:18 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: from "Gregory W. Ratcliff" at Jan 28, 2000 10:15:29 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Count me in as well. dfs@xmission.com Depending on how many people we get in on this, another thing to consider may be quarterly updates or every other one or something, if the cost/person is too high. Don't get me wrong, I'd like the 56 day updates, but if we only get half a dozen people $235/6 ~$40/yr may be more than some people figure it's worth. Note the number is somewhat higher than the $216, on the 56 day schedule there will be 6 one year and seven the next. That is where that number came from, 6.5 updates/yr. > > I'm in. With other open projects I've been involved > > with we've always done the "commit" part first, then > > we do division...then collection. > > > > $216.00/20 (Can we get 20?) > > > > 1. mailto:gwr@edaind.com > > 2. mailto:robert.meier@fanucrobotics.com > > 3. > > 4. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 17:31:22 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:30:18 +0100 Received: from terra.geo.uu.nl ([131.211.29.16]:61665 "EHLO terra.geo.uu.nl") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:29:55 +0100 Received: from smtp.umr.edu (mrelay.cc.umr.edu [131.151.1.89]) by terra.geo.uu.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3/TvZ) with ESMTP id RAA20849 for ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 17:27:13 +0100 (MET) Received: from umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu (umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu [131.151.37.121]) via ESMTP by mrelay.cc.umr.edu (8.9.3/R.4.20) id KAA00527; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:26:16 -0600 Received: by umr-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:26:23 -0600 Message-ID: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EEFFA@umr-mail02> From: "Neulinger, Nathan R." To: "'linux-aviation@nl.linux.org'" Subject: RE: Copyright status of National Airspace Data Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:26:19 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list I'll definately chip in... One thing that I haven't heard mentioned - is this data just "helpful" or is it valid for navigation and flight planning purposes? Related to that, I wonder if there is any way to generate the database that is used by lowrance airmap GPSs, as opposed to just entering waypoints. -- Nathan ------------------------------------------------------------ Nathan Neulinger EMail: nneul@umr.edu University of Missouri - Rolla Phone: (573) 341-4841 Computing Services Fax: (573) 341-4216 > -----Original Message----- > From: D.F.S. [mailto:dfs@xmission.com] > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 10:11 AM > To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org > Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data > > > Count me in as well. > > dfs@xmission.com > > > Depending on how many people we get in on this, another thing to > consider may be quarterly updates or every other one or > something, if the cost/person is too high. > > Don't get me wrong, I'd like the 56 day updates, but if we only > get half a dozen people $235/6 ~$40/yr may be more than some people > figure it's worth. > Note the number is somewhat higher than the $216, on the 56 > day schedule > there will be 6 one year and seven the next. > That is where that number came from, 6.5 updates/yr. > > > > > I'm in. With other open projects I've been involved > > > with we've always done the "commit" part first, then > > > we do division...then collection. > > > > > > $216.00/20 (Can we get 20?) > > > > > > 1. mailto:gwr@edaind.com > > > 2. mailto:robert.meier@fanucrobotics.com > > > 3. > > > 4. > > Marc > > - > Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 18:50:28 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:49:48 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:44038 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 18:48:49 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12EFSz-00079R-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:45:53 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12EFSy-0001br-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:45:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Copyright status of National Airspace Data To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:45:52 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EEFFA@umr-mail02> from "Neulinger, Nathan R." at Jan 28, 2000 10:26:19 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > I'll definately chip in... > > One thing that I haven't heard mentioned - is this data just "helpful" or is > it valid for navigation and flight planning purposes? It should be legal. I don't know of any specific requirements for the info you as a pilot are required to have aside from the general logical requirement it be current. That being said, I would be very careful with the data. It does contain errors. Any software we may use to process or display it WILL contain bugs, maybe they will be critical, maybe they won't, but there will be bugs. I wouldn't stake my life on it all by itself, but it could be very handy. Currently there is a debate raging on usenet as to how many airports in the U.S. have NDB approaches ONLY and no other types and may not be flown with an approache certified GPS as a substitute. A perfect question for a database. An incredible Pain in the butt with 25,000 approaches and 9,000 airports to dig thru. I was looking thru some approach charts the other day. Many may not be flown without a local altimiter setting, some may not be flown when the tower is closed. This data and modifications to a freeware flight plan software could add this type of capability. Maybe an external function call to validate a given candidate airport. This function could be customized for unlimited types of checks. One problem I often run into flying cross country on vacation is the fact I just flew 500 miles in an afternoon into an airport and can't get the last 10 miles to where I'm going because I have no car. Maybe some extra features could go to a database or the web and pick airports on the general route I'm planning that have rental car offices. I have automatic access to the state, county, zip code, city name, and a managers telephone number. All very handy for this type of thing. Same goes for hotels. > Related to that, I wonder if there is any way to generate the database that > is used by lowrance airmap GPSs, as opposed to just entering waypoints. > That will depend on how the database format is documented. The GPS I'm having installed has a rather open interface and it is documented. This is one of the major selling points for me. It is a Garmin unit. I can download my own waypoints and flight plans. As to access to the actual internal database I would not do that with an IFR certified GPS. It would probably not be legal or smart. On the other hand, IF I could get the format for an older unsupported GPS or Loran and was using it for VFR or only as a secondary reference, I would consider it. The main use to this group would probably be more for applications running on a laptop for reference I'd bet. My GPS also will spit out position and waypoint info in a well documented format. A handy feature built into some rcvrs would be frequency lists. I'm at point X, What is ATIS?, Is there a VOR Test beacon here? >From this location, find every VOR I could possibly pick up and list them out. I can't reach flightwatch, find every possible frequency that would let me do that? There are a lot of secondary uses for this data, we could probably build a list 10 times this long in a few days of musing. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Fri Jan 28 22:52:38 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:51:58 +0100 Received: from netcom17.netcom.com ([199.183.9.117]:52493 "EHLO netcom.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 22:51:30 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01073 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:48:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:48:47 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: NASD format documents (was: Copyright status of NASD...) Message-ID: <20000128134846.A850@netcom17.netcom.com> References: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EEFFA@umr-mail02> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from dfs@xmission.com on Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 10:45:52AM -0700 Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Fri Jan 28 13:44:13 PST 2000 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list On Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 10:45:52AM -0700, D.F.S. wrote: > > > > I'll definately chip in... > > > > One thing that I haven't heard mentioned - is this data just "helpful" or is > > it valid for navigation and flight planning purposes? Many of you appeared interested in just what data is provided on the CD-ROM. I have created a gzipped tarball of the documents from the CD-ROM that describe the data formats. For now it's available at; ftp://ftp.agcsc.org/pub/NASD_docs.tar.gz It will probably go away once the "permanent" hosting arrangement is all worked out. Regards, John -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, KD6EKQ | Try Linux for Intel x86, because -(*)- | mailto:jaypee@netcom.com | a PC is a terrible thing to waste! o/ \o | San Diego, CA U.S.A | See http://www.linux.org/ for info - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Sat Jan 29 21:07:32 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:06:50 +0100 Received: from delta.rollanet.org ([208.18.12.6]:13828 "HELO delta.rollanet.org") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with SMTP id ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:06:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 15874 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2000 20:03:19 -0000 Received: from nneul.rollanet.org (HELO umr.edu) (208.18.13.137) by mx.rollanet.org with SMTP; 29 Jan 2000 20:03:19 -0000 Message-ID: <389347FD.1D1547B3@umr.edu> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:05:17 -0600 From: Nathan Neulinger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.71 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14pre15 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list I started to take another look at the quick path and weather graphics support from DUATS and dug up some documentation of the format that is used for the weather graphics. It is called NAPLPS and is a fairly complex vector graphics format. I have both the full quickpath docs and some documentation for NAPLPS if anyone wants them. I was thinking it might be nice to try putting together a C or perl library for interacting with duats, including receiving weather graphics. Is anyone interested in working on this? -- Nathan ------------------------------------------------------------ Nathan Neulinger EMail: nneul@umr.edu University of Missouri - Rolla Phone: (573) 341-4841 CIS - Systems Programming Fax: (573) 341-4216 - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Sat Jan 29 22:33:39 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:33:04 +0100 Received: from ds-img-rel-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.155]:52221 "EHLO spdmraab.compuserve.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:32:22 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmraab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.2) id QAA07612 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:29:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from compuserve.com (chi-tgn-goi-vty48.as.wcom.net [216.192.134.48]) by spdmraab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-REL-1.2) with ESMTP id QAA07590 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:29:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38935AFF.93E9D31B@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:26:23 -0500 From: "Kenyon D. Cox" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51C-Caldera [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. References: <389347FD.1D1547B3@umr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Nathan Neulinger wrote: > > I was thinking it might be nice to try putting together a C or perl > library for interacting with duats, including receiving weather > graphics. Is anyone interested in working on this? > > -- Nathan You bet. As a confirmed non-programmer I've recently tried to decide which script language to use for such a project, and how fancy I wanted to get with a Cirrus-type clone for at least my own use. I have visions of my computer emailing me automated weather checks (fetchmail/sendmail) to my Palm Pilot or digital phone, faxing me a copy of it (efax), compressing it to palmdoc (MakeDocJ) if I'm at home, and having a nice GUI (Tcl/Tk) to mark off what I want downloaded and when. . Since I've eradicated Windoze from my home office, I've just been using the web access to GTE, and don't like it quite as much. Need to change that. Kenyon Cox Corporate Pilot -- Sent by Caldera 2.2 Linux - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Sun Jan 30 02:50:07 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 02:49:39 +0100 Received: from lsanca1-ar99-078-106.biz.dsl.gtei.net ([4.3.78.106]:56560 "EHLO lrz.uni-muenchen.de") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 02:49:07 +0100 Received: (from eugene.leitl@localhost) by lrz.uni-muenchen.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA17881; Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:46:52 -0800 From: Eugene Leitl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14483.38924.356542.589840@lrz.uni-muenchen.de> Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:46:52 -0800 (PST) To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. In-Reply-To: <38935AFF.93E9D31B@compuserve.com> References: <389347FD.1D1547B3@umr.edu> <38935AFF.93E9D31B@compuserve.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 4) "Arches" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Kenyon D. Cox writes: > You bet. > > As a confirmed non-programmer I've recently tried to decide which > script language to use for such a project, and how fancy I wanted to Here's the script language to end all script languages: http://python.org It really is very good, and you can choose 3 shiny O'Reilly books to learn it from. You'll be up and flying within a weekend. With http://swig.org , you can easily extend it in C, recoding the hot spots of your application (in case you should need it). > get with a Cirrus-type clone for at least my own use. I have visions > of my computer emailing me automated weather checks > (fetchmail/sendmail) to my Palm Pilot or digital phone, faxing me a > copy of it (efax), compressing it to palmdoc (MakeDocJ) if I'm at > home, and having a nice GUI (Tcl/Tk) to mark off what I want > downloaded and when. . > > Since I've eradicated Windoze from my home office, I've just been > using the web access to GTE, and don't like it quite as much. Need to > change that. - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Sun Jan 30 10:24:41 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:24:06 +0100 Received: from austin.jhcloos.com ([206.224.83.202]:774 "EHLO jhcloos.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:23:36 +0100 Received: (from cloos@localhost) by jhcloos.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA09994; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 03:20:53 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: austin.jhcloos.com: cloos set sender to cloos@jhcloos.com using -f To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: US National Airspace Data CD-ROM - ATA-120 References: <20000126113042.A186@netcom12.netcom.com> From: "James H. Cloos Jr." In-Reply-To: "John C. Peterson"'s message of "Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:30:42 -0800" Date: 30 Jan 2000 03:20:53 -0600 Message-ID: Lines: 22 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list >>>>> "John" == John C Peterson writes: John> I think we are waiting for someone to offer to provide the John> resources required. The files are way too large to post to the John> list, we would need an http or ftp server with good John> connectivity. If the files are compressed with "gzip -9", the John> storage resources required are about 14 Mb, with "bzip2 -9" John> about 8 Mb. (I posted a detailed summary of various John> commpression methods on Wed, Dec 15, 1999). I can host a copy (accessible via ftp, http and soon rsync). The box is at a site w/ 3 DS-3s, so bandwidth shouldn't be an issue. That said, someplace like sourcrforge.net would be close to an ideal primary site. And free to all opensource/free development efforts. -JimC -- James H. Cloos, Jr. 1024D/ED7DAEA6 E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 Save Trees: Get E-Gold! - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Sun Jan 30 23:58:57 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:58:29 +0100 Received: from netcom18.netcom.com ([199.183.9.118]:1035 "EHLO netcom.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:58:05 +0100 Received: (from jaypee@localhost) by netcom.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29384 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:53:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 14:53:29 -0800 From: "John C. Peterson" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. Message-ID: <20000130145329.A29333@netcom18.netcom.com> References: <389347FD.1D1547B3@umr.edu> <38935AFF.93E9D31B@compuserve.com> <14483.38924.356542.589840@lrz.uni-muenchen.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <14483.38924.356542.589840@lrz.uni-muenchen.de>; from eugene.leitl@lrz.uni-muenchen.de on Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 05:46:52PM -0800 Organization: Blue Blazer Regulars X-Operating-System: SunOS 4.1.4 sun4m X-Created-Offline: Sun Jan 30 14:52:26 PST 2000 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list On Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 05:46:52PM -0800, Eugene Leitl wrote: > Kenyon D. Cox writes: > > > You bet. > > > > As a confirmed non-programmer I've recently tried to decide which > > script language to use for such a project, and how fancy I wanted to > > Here's the script language to end all script languages: > http://python.org > > It really is very good, and you can choose 3 shiny O'Reilly books to > learn it from. You'll be up and flying within a weekend. > I'll add my vote for Python as the preferred scripting language. I really like the idea of having bindings to the Gtk and Gnome libs, (using PyGtk and PyGnome). With the glade interface builder, you can rapidly prototype and build very nice GUI applications. The Gnome canvas widget is also an excellent resource to have. It's perfectly suited to the display of map data where you might want to quickly toggle the visibility of things like airspace boundaries, etc. There's a nice page on just the canvas widget at; http://www.gnome.org/devel/canvas/ Although I've been making small fixes to fplan, I've been holding off on adding any significant new features because I've wanted to clarify in my own mind what the best general approach might be. I'm starting to settle on the idea of a top level GUI interface to major flight planning "modules" that is written in Python, PyGtk, PyGnome. The "modules" could be defined in an obvious way so that people could work on them independently without too much trouble. Some of the obvious ones are; o Weight and Balance o Gathering of weather observations, forecasts o Aircraft performance predictions (like take off distances estimated from density altitude computations derived from weather observations, etc.) o Route selection (including constraints like fuel availability, and possibly some type of route optimization). o Computation of headings, distances, etc (The stuff that fplan already does... The interface to the Python GUI would be accomplished by adding a simple output format to fplan based on "tags" that could easily be interpreted by the Python GUI for subsequent use and display). o Filing of flight plans Any others I have forgot??? Regards, John -- ___|___ | John C. Peterson, KD6EKQ | Try Linux for Intel x86, the open -(*)- | mailto:jaypee@netcom.com | source operating system of the future! o/ \o | San Diego, CA U.S.A | See http://www.linux.org/ for info - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 04:43:45 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:43:16 +0100 Received: from delta.rollanet.org ([208.18.12.6]:64784 "HELO delta.rollanet.org") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with SMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:42:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 20001 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2000 03:40:07 -0000 Received: from nneul.rollanet.org (HELO umr.edu) (208.18.13.137) by mx.rollanet.org with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 03:40:07 -0000 Message-ID: <3895041C.E2F35900@umr.edu> Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:40:12 -0600 From: Nathan Neulinger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.71 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15pre5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. References: <389347FD.1D1547B3@umr.edu> <38935AFF.93E9D31B@compuserve.com> <14483.38924.356542.589840@lrz.uni-muenchen.de> <20000130145329.A29333@netcom18.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list I would suggest that any standardized library to interface with duats should be written in C - the reason for this is that then it can be used from ANY of the languages (perl,tcl,python,c,c++), simply by writing a small wrapper library by hand or using SWIG. This makes a LOT more sense than coding something specific to one scripting language which will then HAVE to be reimplemented if someone wants to use something else. For example, I could very easily see portions of this tied in with GMAP or GRASS, which are a couple of GIS systems. -- Nathan "John C. Peterson" wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 05:46:52PM -0800, Eugene Leitl wrote: > > Kenyon D. Cox writes: > > > > > You bet. > > > > > > As a confirmed non-programmer I've recently tried to decide which > > > script language to use for such a project, and how fancy I wanted to > > > > Here's the script language to end all script languages: > > http://python.org > > > > It really is very good, and you can choose 3 shiny O'Reilly books to > > learn it from. You'll be up and flying within a weekend. > > > > I'll add my vote for Python as the preferred scripting language. > I really like the idea of having bindings to the Gtk and Gnome libs, > (using PyGtk and PyGnome). With the glade interface builder, you can > rapidly prototype and build very nice GUI applications. The Gnome canvas > widget is also an excellent resource to have. It's perfectly suited to the > display of map data where you might want to quickly toggle the visibility > of things like airspace boundaries, etc. There's a nice page on just the > canvas widget at; http://www.gnome.org/devel/canvas/ > > Although I've been making small fixes to fplan, I've been holding off > on adding any significant new features because I've wanted to clarify > in my own mind what the best general approach might be. I'm starting to > settle on the idea of a top level GUI interface to major flight planning > "modules" that is written in Python, PyGtk, PyGnome. The "modules" > could be defined in an obvious way so that people could work on them > independently without too much trouble. Some of the obvious ones are; > > o Weight and Balance > > o Gathering of weather observations, forecasts > > o Aircraft performance predictions (like take off distances estimated from > density altitude computations derived from weather observations, etc.) > > o Route selection (including constraints like fuel availability, and > possibly some type of route optimization). > > o Computation of headings, distances, etc (The stuff that fplan already > does... The interface to the Python GUI would be accomplished by > adding a simple output format to fplan based on "tags" that could > easily be interpreted by the Python GUI for subsequent use and > display). > > o Filing of flight plans > > Any others I have forgot??? > > Regards, John > > -- > ___|___ | John C. Peterson, KD6EKQ | Try Linux for Intel x86, the open > -(*)- | mailto:jaypee@netcom.com | source operating system of the future! > o/ \o | San Diego, CA U.S.A | See http://www.linux.org/ for info > - > Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ > To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body > of a mail message to . -- ------------------------------------------------------------ Nathan Neulinger EMail: nneul@umr.edu University of Missouri - Rolla Phone: (573) 341-4841 CIS - Systems Programming Fax: (573) 341-4216 - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 15:37:51 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:37:13 +0100 Received: from mail.me.umn.edu ([134.84.18.15]:43783 "EHLO mail.me.umn.edu") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:36:42 +0100 Received: from kenai.me.umn.edu (root@kenai.me.umn.edu [134.84.18.22]) by mail.me.umn.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA41609 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:34:00 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from curt@me.umn.edu) Received: (from curt@localhost) by kenai.me.umn.edu (8.9.3/8.9.1) id IAA19802; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:34:00 -0600 From: "Curtis L. Olson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14485.40280.25560.925820@kenai.me.umn.edu> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:34:00 -0600 (CST) To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. In-Reply-To: <3895041C.E2F35900@umr.edu> References: <389347FD.1D1547B3@umr.edu> <38935AFF.93E9D31B@compuserve.com> <14483.38924.356542.589840@lrz.uni-muenchen.de> <20000130145329.A29333@netcom18.netcom.com> <3895041C.E2F35900@umr.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Nathan Neulinger writes: > I would suggest that any standardized library to interface with duats > should be written in C - the reason for this is that then it can be used > from ANY of the languages (perl,tcl,python,c,c++), simply by writing a > small wrapper library by hand or using SWIG. > > This makes a LOT more sense than coding something specific to one > scripting language which will then HAVE to be reimplemented if someone > wants to use something else. > > For example, I could very easily see portions of this tied in with GMAP > or GRASS, which are a couple of GIS systems. It would also be nice to be able to pull current weather conditions into flight sims such as flight gear. I imagine that DUATS would have more/better/more current info than what is generally available on the web? Curt. -- Curtis Olson University of MN, ME Dept. Flight Gear Project Twin Cities curt@me.umn.edu curt@flightgear.org Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 16:14:59 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:14:19 +0100 Received: from venus.anexis.com ([209.236.18.140]:18373 "EHLO venus.anexis.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:13:52 +0100 Received: (from fred@localhost) by venus.anexis.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17967 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:11:09 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Woodbridge Message-Id: <200001311511.KAA17967@venus.anexis.com> Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. In-Reply-To: <14485.40280.25560.925820@kenai.me.umn.edu> from "Curtis L. Olson" at "Jan 31, 2000 08:34:00 am" To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:11:09 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL54 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Quoting Curtis L. Olson: > It would also be nice to be able to pull current weather conditions > into flight sims such as flight gear. I imagine that DUATS would have > more/better/more current info than what is generally available on the > web? > > Curt. Curt, Yes, DUATS does indeed. As a part of the FAAs information dispensing programme, DUATS records are even used to verify if a pilot obtained weather and other information before flight. As such, DUATS has to have up to the minute information. Such verification is necessary in case there's an accident or incident and the NTSB wants to know whether to blame the pilot or not :) -- Frederic Woodbridge || "Unix is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental Network Administrator || technical reasons* why it is necessary to Anexis, Inc. || sacrifice a young goat to your Unix boxes now Fort Lauderdale, FL. || and then" - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 16:40:50 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:40:20 +0100 Received: from net-105.cmorenet.com ([216.63.204.105]:51444 "EHLO halley.cssgroup.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:39:50 +0100 Received: from cssgroup.com (bobd@babbage.cssgroup.com [192.168.10.2]) by halley.cssgroup.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA14359 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:37:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3895AC21.F504E1CE@cssgroup.com> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:37:05 +0000 From: Bob_Deep X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. References: <389347FD.1D1547B3@umr.edu> <38935AFF.93E9D31B@compuserve.com> <14483.38924.356542.589840@lrz.uni-muenchen.de> <20000130145329.A29333@netcom18.netcom.com> <3895041C.E2F35900@umr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Nathan Neulinger wrote: > > I would suggest that any standardized library to interface with duats > should be written in C - the reason for this is that then it can be used > from ANY of the languages (perl,tcl,python,c,c++), simply by writing a > small wrapper library by hand or using SWIG. Um.. I vote that we use Java for this purpose if we are looking for cross platform support... It's a bit slower than some of the scripting languages but it's well supported across a large cross section of hardware platforms and OS's. If not, then Perl is my second choice. You can use Perl routines from within other programs and Perl is fairly fast. My third choice would be C or C++ for the reasons given by Nathan. -- -= Bob =- Hey.. This is my mail and I charge for SPAM I receive... - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 17:25:06 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:24:21 +0100 Received: from terra.geo.uu.nl ([131.211.29.16]:52171 "EHLO terra.geo.uu.nl") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:23:45 +0100 Received: from smtp.umr.edu (mrelay.cc.umr.edu [131.151.1.89]) by terra.geo.uu.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3/TvZ) with ESMTP id RAA13036 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:20:58 +0100 (MET) Received: from umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu (umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu [131.151.37.121]) via ESMTP by mrelay.cc.umr.edu (8.9.3/R.4.20) id KAA20466; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:19:38 -0600 Received: by umr-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:20:02 -0600 Message-ID: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EF012@umr-mail02> From: "Neulinger, Nathan R." To: "'linux-aviation@nl.linux.org'" Subject: RE: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:19:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > > > I would suggest that any standardized library to interface > with duats > > should be written in C - the reason for this is that then > it can be used > > from ANY of the languages (perl,tcl,python,c,c++), simply > by writing a > > small wrapper library by hand or using SWIG. > > Um.. > > I vote that we use Java for this purpose if we are looking for cross > platform support... It's a bit slower than some of the scripting > languages but it's well supported across a large cross section of > hardware platforms and OS's. I would venture to say that perl and C have a far greater cross platform capability than java at the moment. Now, for the graphical interface, you may be right on there. > If not, then Perl is my second choice. You can use Perl routines from > within other programs and Perl is fairly fast. I would say perl would be the best place to start. We could then easily translate the perl module into a wrapper around a C library - particularly if we are careful on designing the interface. > My third choice would be C or C++ for the reasons given by Nathan. > > > -- > -= Bob =- > Hey.. This is my mail and I charge for SPAM I receive... > - > Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 18:25:25 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:24:47 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:6149 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:22:53 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12FKUR-0006mQ-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:19:51 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12FKUQ-00008v-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:19:50 -0700 Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:19:50 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <20000130145329.A29333@netcom18.netcom.com> from "John C. Peterson" at Jan 30, 2000 02:53:29 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 05:46:52PM -0800, Eugene Leitl wrote: > > Kenyon D. Cox writes: > > SNIP > The "modules" > could be defined in an obvious way so that people could work on them > independently without too much trouble. Some of the obvious ones are; > > o Aircraft performance predictions (like take off distances estimated from > density altitude computations derived from weather observations, etc.) There is a method kicking around that looks interesting. It is called the bootstrap approach and with a few test flights to nail down 4-5 parameters opens up a huge amount of info and performance projections. The guy has a book, but it runs 65 bucks and then the guy has the gall to charge $45.00 for a diskette of spreadsheets. There are some free articles on avweb along with a few spreadsheets. > o Route selection (including constraints like fuel availability, and > possibly some type of route optimization). It would be good to add logic so that a flight plan package, say fplan, would pick airports within say an ever widening elipse or rectangle giving priority along the route of flight. It would them submit them to an external program, maybe even a system command called "Approve_airport" or something which would return a yea or nay or maybe a prefered alternate. This could easily be stubbed to a shell script that would approve anything. We could build different programs written in nearly anything appropriate to do the processing. It could be anything from Shell to C, Perl to python. This would leave the most flexibility for all sorts of conditions and requirements. This would allow all sorts of processing for other non-aviation, but trip or personal priorities as well. Stuff like: Does Podunk Intl. have car rentals? Does Podunk City have a Motel 6? Does Podunk City Have a Greyhound Bus Terminal? (For annoying Pax). Some of this stuff could be in a local database and some may be based on a custom processing script that goes out to the web to someplace like Motel6.com or Hertz.com and looks stuff up. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 18:36:29 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:35:37 +0100 Received: from shell13.ba.best.com ([206.184.139.144]:33552 "EHLO shell13.ba.best.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:34:55 +0100 Received: (from jerryk@localhost) by shell13.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.sh) id JAA00964 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:31:42 -0800 (PST) From: Jerome Kaidor Message-Id: <200001311731.JAA00964@shell13.ba.best.com> Subject: Data Compression To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:31:41 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Hello, A week or so ago, somebody on this list was talkign about needing fast data compression - I think, in regard to the FAA flight data CD-ROM. Comment was made that Gzip was too slow, and faster results were obtained with a compression library. A few years ago, I had need of a very fast compressor to integrate into a networking application. I rolled my own. The idea was simple: I took an industry standard compression algorithm - in my case, it was dynamically modelled dictionary compression a-la gzip ( but without gzip's second step of Huffman-encoding the output ). I then transformed the algorithm into a state machine, which allowed it to work on incoming data while the packets were coming in. When you use a compressor like gzip, you tell it: "Here is a file, or data area for you to compress. Here's where it starts, here's how long it is. Put the compressed version over there. Come back when you're through." Whereas with my compressor, you'd say: "I want you to start creating some compressed data for me." ( compressor returns a 'handle' for use in subsequent calls ) "Here's a kilobyte" "Here's five hundred thirty three more bytes" "Here's another byte" "Here's another hundred bytes" . . . "OK, there's no more bytes. Finish it up!" This approach has two main advantages: first, you never have to store the complete uncompressed file anywhere! Each packet ( or sector, or read()) can be compressed as it comes in. Which can save your computer from going into swap. Second, the time spent compressing is partially ( or maybe wholly ) subsumed into the I/O time. In other words, the computer can be compressing while the network is networking, or the disk is disking :-). I'm sure similar things are done by MNP5 modems. - Jerry Kaidor ( jerry@tr2.com ) - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 18:37:52 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:37:01 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:28944 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:36:25 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12FKhd-0000uK-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:33:29 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12FKhc-0000X7-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:33:28 -0700 Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:33:28 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EF012@umr-mail02> from "Neulinger, Nathan R." at Jan 31, 2000 10:19:55 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > I would say perl would be the best place to start. We could then easily > translate the perl module into a wrapper around a C library - particularly > if we are careful on designing the interface. > I would have to vote for perl. I'm a confirmed C bigot, but for this type of thing, processing files and html and other random bits of info, I think Perl wins hands down. A look at the Database we were talking about and plans to parse it is a perfect example. This will probably take 1/4 the code in perl to do this than with C. As soon as we can get it posted someplace, I'll get started on that. I plan to split the different record types out into different files. Just to keep it simple, look at the file descriptions just posted. many of the files have multiple record types: Take AWY. DESCRIPTION OF THE RECORD TYPES: -------------------------------- 'AWY1' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS THE BASIC AND MINIMUM ENROUTE ALTITUDE(MEA) DATA FOR EACH AIRWAY POINT/SEGMENT. THERE IS ONE AWY1 RECORD FOR EACH AIRWAY POINT/SEGMENT. 'AWY2' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS THE AIRWAY POINT DESCRIPTION. THERE IS ONE AWY2 RECORD FOR EACH AIRWAY POINT. 'AWY3' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS THE TO CHANGEOVER POINT NAVAID DESCRIPTION (VOR AND JET AIRWAYS ONLY). THERE IS ONE RECORD FOR EACH TO CHANGEOVER POINT NAVAID DESCRIPTION. 'AWY4' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS TEXTUAL INFORMATION REGARDING REMARKS ABOUT THE AWY POINT DATA. EACH AWY4 RECORD CONTAINS ONE LINE OF TEXT. THERE CAN BE 0 TO 2 AWY4 RECORDS. 'AWY5' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS TEXTUAL INFORMATION REGARDING EXCEPTIONS TO THE STANDARD AWY CHANGEOVER POINT DATA. EACH AWY5 RECORD CONTAINS ONE LINE OF TEXT. THERE CAN BE 0 TO 2 AWY5 RECORDS. It would be much better from a database viewpoint to have all these different record types in different files or tables and relate them to each other than to try and dig thru and parse this jumble of stuff every time you need a piece of data. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 18:43:30 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:42:46 +0100 Received: from Jade.BC.net ([128.189.4.1]:64684 "EHLO BC.net") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:41:58 +0100 Received: from tutankhamen.creo.com (tutankhamen.creo.bc.ca [204.174.12.17]) by jade.bc.net [128.189.4.1] (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA00466 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:38:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.creo.com by tutankhamen.creo.com via smtpd (for Jade.BC.net [128.189.4.1]) with SMTP; 31 Jan 2000 17:38:55 UT Received: from msgbld1bh.creo.com (msgbld1bh.creo.bc.ca [204.174.12.115]) by relay.creo.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58829U300L100S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:36:01 -0800 Received: by msgbld1bh.creo.bc.ca with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:38:52 -0800 Message-ID: From: Rob Prior To: "'linux-aviation@nl.linux.org'" Subject: RE: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:43:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list If it's the bootstrap approach to aircraft performance that you're looking for, here's three articles on AvWeb that do just that, complete with Excel spreadsheets (haven't tried, but they should load into StarOffice just fine... 8-) Fixed-Pitch-Propelled: http://www.avweb.com/articles/bootstp1/ Variable-Pitch-Propelled: http://www.avweb.com/articles/bootstp2/ Turning Performance: http://www.avweb.com/articles/bootstp3/ -Rob Prior Airframe Aircraft Portraits http://home.istar.ca/~airframe/ -----Original Message----- From: D.F.S. [mailto:dfs@xmission.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 09:20 To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. > > On Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 05:46:52PM -0800, Eugene Leitl wrote: > > Kenyon D. Cox writes: > > SNIP > The "modules" > could be defined in an obvious way so that people could work on them > independently without too much trouble. Some of the obvious ones are; > > o Aircraft performance predictions (like take off distances estimated from > density altitude computations derived from weather observations, etc.) There is a method kicking around that looks interesting. It is called the bootstrap approach and with a few test flights to nail down 4-5 parameters opens up a huge amount of info and performance projections. The guy has a book, but it runs 65 bucks and then the guy has the gall to charge $45.00 for a diskette of spreadsheets. There are some free articles on avweb along with a few spreadsheets. > o Route selection (including constraints like fuel availability, and > possibly some type of route optimization). It would be good to add logic so that a flight plan package, say fplan, would pick airports within say an ever widening elipse or rectangle giving priority along the route of flight. It would them submit them to an external program, maybe even a system command called "Approve_airport" or something which would return a yea or nay or maybe a prefered alternate. This could easily be stubbed to a shell script that would approve anything. We could build different programs written in nearly anything appropriate to do the processing. It could be anything from Shell to C, Perl to python. This would leave the most flexibility for all sorts of conditions and requirements. This would allow all sorts of processing for other non-aviation, but trip or personal priorities as well. Stuff like: Does Podunk Intl. have car rentals? Does Podunk City have a Motel 6? Does Podunk City Have a Greyhound Bus Terminal? (For annoying Pax). Some of this stuff could be in a local database and some may be based on a custom processing script that goes out to the web to someplace like Motel6.com or Hertz.com and looks stuff up. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 19:01:41 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:00:33 +0100 Received: from terra.geo.uu.nl ([131.211.29.16]:38354 "EHLO terra.geo.uu.nl") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:59:41 +0100 Received: from smtp.umr.edu (mrelay.cc.umr.edu [131.151.1.89]) by terra.geo.uu.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3/TvZ) with ESMTP id SAA23418 for ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:55:47 +0100 (MET) Received: from umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu (umr-mail01.cc.umr.edu [131.151.37.121]) via ESMTP by mrelay.cc.umr.edu (8.9.3/R.4.20) id LAA15959; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:54:13 -0600 Received: by umr-mail01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:54:38 -0600 Message-ID: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EF01B@umr-mail02> From: "Neulinger, Nathan R." To: "'linux-aviation@nl.linux.org'" Subject: RE: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:54:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list Oh, definately. For processing the data files that the NFDC provides, it definately makes sense to do it in perl. I figured that we'd be processing those data files from the standard format into a format that was more usable to the individual applications and splitting it out into multiple files for efficiency/etc. Once it's in a more useful form, then it makes sense to access it via C/Tcl/Python/Perl, but for the translation effort, perl wins hands down. Ideally, I'd like to see the data files get processed from the raw form into a Berkeley DB format database, or something along those lines. -- Nathan ------------------------------------------------------------ Nathan Neulinger EMail: nneul@umr.edu University of Missouri - Rolla Phone: (573) 341-4841 Computing Services Fax: (573) 341-4216 > -----Original Message----- > From: D.F.S. [mailto:dfs@xmission.com] > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 11:33 AM > To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org > Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. > > > > I would say perl would be the best place to start. We could > then easily > > translate the perl module into a wrapper around a C library > - particularly > > if we are careful on designing the interface. > > > > I would have to vote for perl. > > I'm a confirmed C bigot, but for this type of thing, > processing files and > html and other random bits of info, I think Perl wins hands down. > > A look at the Database we were talking about and plans to > parse it is a > perfect example. > > This will probably take 1/4 the code in perl to do this than with C. > > As soon as we can get it posted someplace, I'll get started on that. > > I plan to split the different record types out into different files. > > Just to keep it simple, look at the file descriptions just posted. > many of the files have multiple record types: > > Take AWY. > > DESCRIPTION OF THE RECORD TYPES: > -------------------------------- > > 'AWY1' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS THE BASIC AND MINIMUM > ENROUTE ALTITUDE(MEA) DATA FOR EACH AIRWAY POINT/SEGMENT. > THERE IS ONE AWY1 RECORD FOR EACH AIRWAY POINT/SEGMENT. > > 'AWY2' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS THE AIRWAY POINT DESCRIPTION. > THERE IS ONE AWY2 RECORD FOR EACH AIRWAY POINT. > > 'AWY3' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS THE TO CHANGEOVER POINT NAVAID > DESCRIPTION (VOR AND JET AIRWAYS ONLY). > THERE IS ONE RECORD FOR EACH TO CHANGEOVER POINT NAVAID > DESCRIPTION. > > 'AWY4' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS TEXTUAL INFORMATION REGARDING > REMARKS ABOUT THE AWY POINT DATA. EACH AWY4 RECORD > CONTAINS ONE LINE OF TEXT. THERE CAN BE 0 TO 2 AWY4 > RECORDS. > > 'AWY5' RECORD TYPE CONTAINS TEXTUAL INFORMATION REGARDING > EXCEPTIONS TO THE STANDARD AWY CHANGEOVER POINT DATA. EACH AWY5 > RECORD CONTAINS ONE LINE OF TEXT. THERE CAN BE 0 TO 2 AWY5 > RECORDS. > > > It would be much better from a database viewpoint to have all these > different record types in different files or tables and relate > them to each other than to try and dig thru and parse this jumble > of stuff every time you need a piece of data. > > Marc > > > > > > - > Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 20:42:44 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:42:02 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:62991 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:41:47 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12FMfA-0000GD-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:39:04 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12FMf7-0004X2-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:39:01 -0700 Subject: Re: GTE DUATS and weather graphics/etc. To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:39:01 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <9DA8D24B915BD1118911006094516EAF029EF01B@umr-mail02> from "Neulinger, Nathan R." at Jan 31, 2000 11:54:35 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > Oh, definately. For processing the data files that the NFDC provides, it > definately makes sense to do it in perl. I figured that we'd be processing > those data files from the standard format into a format that was more usable > to the individual applications and splitting it out into multiple files for > efficiency/etc. > > Once it's in a more useful form, then it makes sense to access it via > C/Tcl/Python/Perl, but for the translation effort, perl wins hands down. > Ideally, I'd like to see the data files get processed from the raw form into > a Berkeley DB format database, or something along those lines. I'm an Oracle Database Admin / Database engr. so They are ALL very sparse as the the features I'm used to, but I'd like to find a simple but free database library or toolkit better than the old DB stuff. In any event once we get the data cleaned up and in a decent format, importing it into anything from excel to access to Oracle would be a no-brainer. Processing the Data files was just an example, processing this kind of files has a lot in common with say logging on to the DUATS system and making requests and parsing the info being returned. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to . From owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Mon Jan 31 20:46:31 2000 Received: by humbolt.nl.linux.org id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:45:52 +0100 Received: from mail.xmission.com ([198.60.22.22]:35090 "EHLO mail.xmission.com") by humbolt.nl.linux.org with ESMTP id ; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:45:16 +0100 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([198.60.22.20] ident=root) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12FMiY-0000tc-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:42:34 -0700 Received: from dfs by xmission.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12FMiW-0004fE-00 for linux-aviation@nl.linux.org; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:42:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Data Compression To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:42:32 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <200001311731.JAA00964@shell13.ba.best.com> from "Jerome Kaidor" at Jan 31, 2000 09:31:41 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: "D.F.S." Sender: owner-linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: linux-aviation@nl.linux.org Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;linux-aviation-list > > Hello, > > A week or so ago, somebody on this list was talkign about needing fast > data compression - I think, in regard to the FAA flight data CD-ROM. > Comment was made that Gzip was too slow, and faster results were obtained > with a compression library. > Snip, or lossy compressed as the case may be ;-). > > This approach has two main advantages: first, you never have to store > the complete uncompressed file anywhere! Each packet ( or sector, or > read()) can be compressed as it comes in. Which can save your computer > from going into swap. Second, the time spent compressing is partially > ( or maybe wholly ) subsumed into the I/O time. In other words, the > computer can be compressing while the network is networking, or the disk > is disking :-). > The Lzo library I mentioned before must work in a similar manner. I supposedly takes no memory to decompress the files. De-Compression runs in a realtime streaming mode the way I understand it. There are Perl and Java libs as well unless I'm mistaken. Marc - Archives of linux-aviation: http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/linux-aviation/ To unsubscribe: send the command "unsubscribe linux-aviation" in the body of a mail message to .