Re: [alliance] Fw: Freedows/Alliance Split: One Year Later

["Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr" <midryder@intcon.net>]

----- Original Message -----
From: Ramon van Handel <vhandel@chem.vu.nl>
To: <alliance@humbolt.nl.linux.org>
Cc: <disc_druid@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [alliance] Fw: Freedows/Alliance Split: One Year Later


> > > > > Where can the specifications and code be found?
> > > >
> > > > On CSV.
>
> No, on CVS :)

This is what happens when you have a female distracting you... <GRIN>

> > > > > *What features does Alliance currently plan to include in the
first
> > > > > release?
> > > >
> > > > A complete list?  And how detailed?  I'll leave THIS up to the
developers
> > > > to answer - they know better than me what's going to constitute a
'first
> > > > release' version of Alliance.
>
> What do you call a release ?  A "stable release" ?  I don't think
> anybody
> is thinking about that yet.  By the time alliance is ready for an
> end-user
> release, we'll probably just include whatever we have at the time :)

I'll debate that point.  I figure when it gets near to a 'stable release'
people will start looking towards what's left to do to make it a fully
usable system.  I could be entirely wrong, of course!

> > > > > *Do you think creating an emulation of Windows by the project or
some
> > > > > outside party for the Alliance CK is really likely considering
the
> > > > > difficulties WINE is having?
>
> Creating a windows emulation is not within the goals of this project.
> Technically, I believe it would be possible if you have access to
> all the (undocumented) APIs of windows, which, of course, you don't.
> I'm not quite clear on what difficulties WINE is having... could you
> explain ?

One of the most major problems with WINE is trying to get it to be a
complete Win implementation.  There's just SO much involved in making
anything that runs under Windows run under WINE - for example, games.
DirectX changes quite often.  I'm not sure when WINE's first attempt at
DirectX emulation was, but, DX is now up to version 6(.1?), which includes
API's for DirectDraw, DirectInput, DirectSound, DirectMusic, Direct3D
(including the shitload of new features included last version like texture
compression, environmental bumpmapping, etc.)  Sheer SIZE alone is a
problem with Win32 emulation <GRUMBLE>  For example, if you wanted to do
the same thing with Amiga software (not including processor platform
differences) it would be much easier - the OS is very stablized (3.5 is
comming soon, after 5 years of no revisions) the API is concistant and much
less complicated, etc.  Win32 emulation is just plain HARD.  Not
impossible, but hard.  Plus, when it started, the target was Win16
emulation - there's quite a bit of difference between the two!

I could produce a whole list of problems that they have encountered - but
there's no need to clog up the list server <GRIN>

> A port of WINE should be feasible, in any case :)

Hmmmm...  I've thought about that quite a bit, and still haven't decided
how good or bad that would be.  Once it's to the point that we can write
emulations on top of Alliance, then we'll find out <GRIN>

> > > > > *What is the current view of the project towards the other?
> > > >
> > > > Apathy?  Everyone wished them the best of luck a year ago, and the
> > > > offer was there to cooperate, but, that never panned out.
>
> There have been bad feelings floating around for a long time.
> In the last few months, that seems to have quietened down though.
> We don't really have anything to do anymore with freedows ---
> I myself never talk to anybody from freedows anymore, or hear
> anything from them.  It's probably for the best :)

And here I thought I would be all nice and Politically Correct <GRIN>

> > > > > *When Alliance split with Freedows, how many people actually left
and
> > > > > how many actually stayed, not counting those who had signed up
for
> > > > > the project but had not received a position?
> > > >
> > > > Only a handful of people left Freedows - all but two of those were
> > > > developers.  Grand total, probably 20 people.
>
> As a matter of fact, I don't remember that any developer stayed behind.
> All developers left, and freedows was left with their 500 beta testers
> :)

As far as I know - when we left, we took every active developer to
Alliance.  There were some inactive developers left behind, if I remember.
Everyone else was support personell - web design, translation, beta
testers, etc.

> > > > > *How did the events that lead up to the Freedows/Alliance split
> > > > > affect the organization of Alliance?
> > > >
> > > > Alliance is a VERY loose, self managing group.  Completely
different
> > > > from when the developers were with Freedows, which was a rather
structured
> > > > group.  It's rare to see Lloyd say much on the lists in the
capacity of
> > > > the group leader - it's just unnessisary.
>
> I'm not even clear on what Lloyd's job is -- I think that his job
> is to resolve any serious arguments if they come up.  Well, they
> haven't :)

Exactly.  And, go back throught the list archives, he's stepped in once.
Plus we have someone to blame if this never gets done <EVIL GRIN>

> > > > > *Has the last year been a smooth one for Alliance, all things
> > > > > considered?
> > > >
> > > > All things considered?  VERY smooth, with the exception of the
usual
> > > > little bumps that happens during development like this - people
taking
> > > > vacation from time to time, etc.
>
> It didn't go as fast as I've expected.  For myself, there have
> been periods when I simply didn't have time to spend on alliance.
> All things considered, though, I think we did pretty okay.  I
> hope that once the CK and SORB are in a more advanced stage
> that many more people can start actively coding, which'll mean
> a lot faster progress.
>
> > > > > Anything else you want to add? Feel free.
> > > > > Thanks for your time.

Well, thanks for the chance to say our piece on the matter, Spence.
I've already been asked if we are going to see the article ahead of time,
but personally, I don't think it matters too much.

Also, Daryl mentioned that when you need an 'Official' release, just holler
at him or me.  Unless anyone else objects to this, I pretty much consider
anything you get off this list to be the 'offical' sound-bite material for
you to work from.  I don't think a sound bite is nessisary.  /. is news for
geeks - the information sounds much better to me coming from the geeks that
are working on the project rather than the spin doctor for the project
<GRIN>  And, as you can tell from the variance in opinion between Ramon and
I's opinions, not everyone feels exactly the same about how things have
gone, what going on now, etc.  The developers are much closer to the
subject matter than I am :-)

> > > > Now, I really have to cut this short - I will most
> > > > certainly have a couple things I'd like to add later, but, I've got
> > > > this red head girl friend who's doing everything in her power to
make
> > > > sure I get off the computer as soon as possible! <GRIN>
>
> Eww, Davis, I'm so jealous :-P

Hey, I had to explain why it wasn't my normal long winded, through job!

Midnight Ryder
Aka Davis Ray Sickmon, Jr
Ambassador for Alliance
...And trust me, there's PLENTY of reason for jealousy! <GRIN>

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