RE: [alliance] Fw: Freedows/Alliance Split: One Year Later

["Daryl Borth" <dpborth@home.com>]

If these questions need to be answered more formally, I am available for
comment next week (If you're busy, Davis).

Daryl Borth
Alliance OS Web Site Administrator
http://www.allos.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-alliance@humbolt.nl.linux.org
> [mailto:owner-alliance@humbolt.nl.linux.org]On Behalf Of Ramon van
> Handel
> Sent: August 12, 1999 8:16 AM
> To: alliance@humbolt.nl.linux.org
> Cc: disc_druid@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [alliance] Fw: Freedows/Alliance Split: One Year Later
>
>
> > > > > *What progress has Alliance made in the past year?
> > > >
> > > > Yeeks.  Where to start?!  Tell ya what - I'm going to leave
> this one to
> > > > the developers to answer!!!
>
> Pretty soon after the split last year (a month or two, I think) we
> started coding the CK.  This started out with a prototype scheduler
> and kinda grew from there.  The CK was coded mostly by two people,
> Jens and myself.  For a while we didn't have time so development
> halted, but now it's coming along nicely again.  The CK is not yet
> completely ready in order to support the rest of the system, but
> I think that'll be a matter of another month, or perhaps two (but
> don't take me too literally, it always takes longer than I initially
> hope ;)).
>
> Other parts of the system that were coded:  the IOSK has a prototype
> running under linux, written by Daniel and Stefano.  They abandoned
> work on this because the linux environment is too different from
> the CK in order to go further than that, so we're really waiting
> for a more solid base system.
>
> SORB also had some prototype work written by Luc, though most of
> it is very old IIRC.
>
> Recently (in the last month), I've been putting a lot of work into
> the ABL (boot system), including integrating the GRUB bootloader
> into our source tree in such a way that we can shared device
> drivers between GRUB and the ABL.
>
> All of the other areas (am I not forgetting any ?) don't have
> any code, but have had periodical discussions going on, and
> possibly some specification.
>
> Of course, we're always short of developers :)  It is my
> personal hope that once we have a working prototype core
> system with the CK and a few kernels and applications,
> that more coders will be attracted to the project.
>
> > > > > *Is Alliance still at the specification stage or is there actually
> > > > > code?
> > > >
> > > > Both.  Since the project spans more than one area (CK,
> SK's, GUI, etc.)
> > > > each area is in different shape.
> > > >
> > > > CK:  The specs are horribly outdated the last time I
> checked.  There's
> > > > a good amount of code here, some demo tasks, etc.  But, for
> the most part,
> > > > the specs are written after the code.
>
> The current specs are awefully out of date.  I'm not writing any specs
> until I feel that the CK design is stable.  We've abandoned writing
> CK specs when we noticed that the code evolved faster than the specs
> anyway.
>
> > > > > Where can the specifications and code be found?
> > > >
> > > > On CSV.
>
> No, on CVS :)
>
> > > > > *What development model is Alliance currently using?
> > > >
> > > > You know, I'm not sure how it's classified at the moment <GRIN>
>
> Open.  To develop alliance, join the lists, pick something that you
> like and start working on it.
>
> > > > > *When do you expect a final release?
> > > >
> > > > Final release?  Is there such a thing?  There will always
> be a million and
> > > > one various things that will be added, etc., just like
> Linux.  It's never
> > > > quite done.
>
> We're better off first working towards a working prototype :)
>
> > > > > *What features does Alliance currently plan to include in
> the first
> > > > > release?
> > > >
> > > > A complete list?  And how detailed?  I'll leave THIS up to
> the developers
> > > > to answer - they know better than me what's going to
> constitute a 'first
> > > > release' version of Alliance.
>
> What do you call a release ?  A "stable release" ?  I don't think
> anybody
> is thinking about that yet.  By the time alliance is ready for an
> end-user
> release, we'll probably just include whatever we have at the time :)
>
> > > > > *How many people are currently working on the project?
> > > >
> > > > Right now, there are 25 people in the Alliance directory -
> I THINK that's
> > > > everyone.1
> > > >
> > > > >In what capacities?
> > > >
> > > > We have very few 'support' personell in Alliance.  One
> person maintains
> > > > the FAQ and a few other things.  There's myself, the PR guy.  Daryl
> > > > Borth heads up the web site.  There's annother person who
> works with Daryl.
> > > > J Wynia is User Ed.  Lloyd Duhon is the project lead.  As
> for everyone
> > > > else - well, most of them have 'teams' they list them
> selves as being
> > > > on, like "Network SK" or "Cache Kernel'  However, it really
> doesn't work
> > > > that way - pretty much everyone put thier noses in
> everyone's part of the
> > > > project, pitches in ideas, code, whatever is needed.
> There's also one
> > > > or two people who are on vacation at the moment.
>
> There are very few actually coding people (three at the moment, I
> think.)
> I think they're mostly waiting for a decent CK and SORB.  That's fair,
> because that's really the foundation of the system.
>
> > > > > *Do you think creating an emulation of Windows by the
> project or some
> > > > > outside party for the Alliance CK is really likely considering the
> > > > > difficulties WINE is having?
>
> Creating a windows emulation is not within the goals of this project.
> Technically, I believe it would be possible if you have access to
> all the (undocumented) APIs of windows, which, of course, you don't.
> I'm not quite clear on what difficulties WINE is having... could you
> explain ?
>
> A port of WINE should be feasible, in any case :)
>
> > > > > *What is the current view of the project towards the other?
> > > >
> > > > Apathy?  Everyone wished them the best of luck a year ago, and the
> > > > offer was there to cooperate, but, that never panned out.
>
> There have been bad feelings floating around for a long time.
> In the last few months, that seems to have quietened down though.
> We don't really have anything to do anymore with freedows ---
> I myself never talk to anybody from freedows anymore, or hear
> anything from them.  It's probably for the best :)
>
> > > > > *When Alliance split with Freedows, how many people
> actually left and
> > > > > how many actually stayed, not counting those who had signed up for
> > > > > the project but had not received a position?
> > > >
> > > > Only a handful of people left Freedows - all but two of those were
> > > > developers.  Grand total, probably 20 people.
>
> As a matter of fact, I don't remember that any developer stayed behind.
> All developers left, and freedows was left with their 500 beta testers
> :)
>
> > > > > *How did the events that lead up to the Freedows/Alliance split
> > > > > affect the organization of Alliance?
> > > >
> > > > Alliance is a VERY loose, self managing group.  Completely different
> > > > from when the developers were with Freedows, which was a
> rather structured
> > > > group.  It's rare to see Lloyd say much on the lists in the
> capacity of
> > > > the group leader - it's just unnessisary.
>
> I'm not even clear on what Lloyd's job is -- I think that his job
> is to resolve any serious arguments if they come up.  Well, they
> haven't :)
>
> > > > > *Has the last year been a smooth one for Alliance, all things
> > > > > considered?
> > > >
> > > > All things considered?  VERY smooth, with the exception of the usual
> > > > little bumps that happens during development like this -
> people taking
> > > > vacation from time to time, etc.
>
> It didn't go as fast as I've expected.  For myself, there have
> been periods when I simply didn't have time to spend on alliance.
> All things considered, though, I think we did pretty okay.  I
> hope that once the CK and SORB are in a more advanced stage
> that many more people can start actively coding, which'll mean
> a lot faster progress.
>
> > > > > Anything else you want to add? Feel free.
> > > > > Thanks for your time.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the opportunity to say our piece about it, Spence!  It's
> > > > very much appreciated.
>
> Same here.
>
> PS, I don't know how much time you're planning to spend on researching
> the groups -- but I suggest you have a look at the mailing list archives
> for each group.  You can find ours at
> http://mail.nl.linux.org/lists/
> (all the lists starting with 'alliance' :))
> As far as I know, all freedows lists are still at www.egroups.com...
> ask them.
>
> > > > Now, I really have to cut this short - I will most
> > > > certainly have a couple things I'd like to add later, but, I've got
> > > > this red head girl friend who's doing everything in her
> power to make
> > > > sure I get off the computer as soon as possible! <GRIN>
>
> Eww, Davis, I'm so jealous :-P
>
> Ramon
> -
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